| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| thumbstruck |
Posted - 09/18/2017 : 3:07:18 PM
Eh, had one time when had plenny guys talk story about any kine, restaurants, drive ins, getting lickin's smah-kid time, recipes, advices from tutu kane, firs'time hea slack key, li'dat. Cannot tell me dat da phones an' da devices wen take ovah! Shoots! If li'dat, wase time us guys play guitar!
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| akinoguy |
Posted - 10/12/2017 : 3:00:22 PM
It is certainly a lonely pursuit if you don't live in the islands, and outside small spots in California. Even here on the desert side of Los Angeles at the edge of the Inland Empire near the Cajon Pass. At least, I know a fellow Taropatch member about an hour away who plays much better than I do. |
| thumbstruck |
Posted - 10/02/2017 : 8:46:39 PM
I've been playing the same tunes since I learned them in 1974. Something new always falls off of the guitar (that's why it's good to play on a drop cloth). YouTube, the 'patch, books, CDs, weren't available. For over 20 years, I played Hawaiian music by myself (unless I got a Bluegrass buddy to play rhythm). Keep searching, keep practicing, keep talking it up.
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| kihoaluatl |
Posted - 10/01/2017 : 4:55:04 PM
I can certainly identify with having no one to play along with. I have not found any kihoalu players here in Georgia. So I mostly play along with YouTube, first learning to play the backup parts to get the chord changes, then moving on to the melody. It is surprising how much easier it is once you get the chord changes then playing arpeggios with the melody. Watching and listening to other styles of common songs has helped to keep things interesting when I hit a block.
I am amazed that there is no limit to playing three chord G, C, D. Keep it up, I have been playing the same songs for nearly ten years starting with memorizing the tabs and now I find myself adding bits from the different styles when I practice. I can't say exactly when that happened but I find that I can now listen to a song and am able to pick out the chords with relative ease. All I can say is that practice does pay off. |
| JackSprat |
Posted - 09/27/2017 : 11:46:54 AM
Geoff, I recommend grabbing those tabs Duke mentioned for "Ku'uipo Onaona" and "Slack Key Hula". I'm lucky enough to be one of his haumana and those two are a great foundation to see how you can take pieces from your inventory and work them into the chord progression in those two songs. You mentioned "inventory" and Duke likes to hammer that point home - every time you pick up a tab or figure out a lick you like, you get another tool in your improv toolkit. One thing I've promised myself is to never say, "I can't do that."
Personally, I think tabs are awesome, as long as you can appreciate their limitations (hard to show timing and ringing notes). My ear needs work, too, so I try to marry up the tab with the wealth of examples on YouTube to figure out the "right" way to play a song. Once you get a new song down, take those bits & pieces and see how they fit in other songs you already know. That's the best way I've seen to figure out "why" songs are put together the way they are, and then how to do some tweaks to them, based on things I like.
And as for guitar playing being like a vast ocean - totally agree, but that's what makes it so cool. It's really a limitless instrument. It can seem daunting, but I'd say just take one paddle stroke at a time, rather than focusing on that big scary ocean. Thanks for starting this conversation - you're saying what a lot of people probably feel. :-) |
| thumbstruck |
Posted - 09/26/2017 : 9:02:43 PM
One more thing: Slipry1 says that playing music is subjective: what we play and what we want to play can be 2 different things. That's why Ledward laughs when he plays, because he surprises himself. |
| thumbstruck |
Posted - 09/26/2017 : 8:59:15 PM
Geoff, I tell my students that "hitting the wall" is a sure sign of progress. Discouragement and confusion are part of the journey. You know more now than you did last year, you will know more next year than you do now. We live in a modern culture that sees things in "black and white", a reference to the printing press. While having things written can be a great boon, we, as a culture, have forgotten that we can listen (how did you learn English as a little kid - which "book" did your folks use?). Learning to trust one's hearing can seem counter intuitive, but that is one of our most powerful tools for learning and interacting. Thus: no stress, jus' press. |
| Eynowd |
Posted - 09/26/2017 : 5:25:41 PM
Right now, I feel lost. I feel like there is some fundamental point that everyone else gets that I simply don't understand yet, and I can't express that in the right way so that I get the answer that actually helps me.
Answers like "Is easy. Step one, da book; step two, no book" just make me feel like I want to headbutt a concrete wall until I pass out. It might be funny for you guys, but I find it really discouraging and I often don't want to ask questions in the future.
At what point does the student put away the book? I get the distinct impression from folks around here that learning from tab is bad. That I should be able to play without needing it. But right now, it seems like it's the only useful way for me to go about it. My ear training is still so damn rudimentary I can't tell you which note is which just from listening to it, let alone figuring out a whole piece.
There's a huge amount I don't know about playing music. I may be in my mid-40s, but I only started playing music three and a half years ago. Three months after I started, I found out about ki ho'alu and started learning that, but I couldn't even play a C chord on a standard tuned guitar at that point. I had no idea what I was doing.
I don't have anyone else to play slack key with. There's just no one else in this city who's interested. Hell, there's barely anyone in this whole country.
I want to understand. I want to play like I'm "supposed" to. I just don't get how to do that. It's driving me nuts.
I think I'm going to bow out of this conversation at this point. I've already made a big enough fool out of myself, I think. |
| sirduke58 |
Posted - 09/26/2017 : 4:00:38 PM
Nah John, no need to concede. Everyone's input is valued. You make very good points that I wholeheartedly agree with. Mahalo for sharing your mana'o . |
| John |
Posted - 09/26/2017 : 3:41:56 PM
This is really a discussion that I have no right to butt into, but... everyone here is saying "relax, take it slow, and enjoy yourself". (i.e. Jus' press.) I'm not sure you're hearing that though.
I'm writing this with the best and kindest of intentions. I sincerely hope you succeed. I hope you find your way.
Having said that however, I see you getting caught up in a self-imagined predicament that it's necessary that you meet a standard, of some sort. One that will be acceptable to others. (i.e. The "tune" must sound "correct".)
Let's say you've got a tab (from someone somewhere), then Google (or use whatever finder-mechanism you choose) to find the "tune" (if you don't already have a version you like). Listen to it. Get an idea of the melody, etc. Then use your tab to approximate that sound.
Approximate. Again, approximate, each time getting closer to that which is "perfect". Don't kill yourself over trying to sound like (insert player name here). You really don't need to isolate yourself on purpose--or to go on some sort of vision quest, or to discover how to make a specific sound. There's really no need to "set sail" with no food or water, in order to "find a new shore".
You've said "I just hope I don't get lost." You'll be exactly that if you wander off by yourself with--how did you put that?--"with no visible paths to follow". If you have a recording, a tab sheet, and all these great people here supporting you, you'll never be out in the middle of any ocean. It does take time and effort though. But make no mistake--at the other end of your journey, you'll be more than satisfied--and dare I say, "happy."
Just sayin'.
(Duke: It appears I was writing when you were writing. However, your sentiments are much more concise than mine, so I give way to your wisdom.)
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| sirduke58 |
Posted - 09/26/2017 : 3:34:46 PM
Actually Geoff,
Whenever I teach songs to my students I try to get share a version that is as close as possible to the original. If I share tabs with them my first choice will be the original rendition of the composer. I'm one of those that believe you should learn the song verbatim first then over time let it evolve with variations you've seen or heard elsewhere.This is how I define the phrase "Make it your own"
An example would be "Radio Hula" It's one of the standards in the kiho'alu genre. I'd estimate that at least 90% of the people in Hawaii who play slack key have this song in their repertoire. Well I first learned this song when I was 18 years old. That's 41 years ago & to this day my rendition is still evolving. I'm constantly adding or subtracting a verse or swapping out variations of riffs. Go ahead & watch 20 videos of Ledward playing "Radio Hula" and I'll bet all my instruments that each one will be slightly different.
quote:
Originally posted by Eynowd
Is the "easiest" way to build inventory to keep on learning new pieces from tab, while watching YouTube or whatever to find the extra twiddly bits to throw in?
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!! Winner, winner chicken dinner!!! Ozzie believes the best way to accumulate "Inventory" is by learning songs. Almost every song you learn will have something that's worth storing away in your inventory. I have adopted the same theory with my students.
First & foremost is to make the slack key journey fun, Geoff. No need to stress, no need to impress. In the words of the best "Jus' Press!!!"
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| Eynowd |
Posted - 09/26/2017 : 12:53:08 PM
I think we're just going round in circles now.
One of the most frustrating things about learning slack key remotely is you get some tab for a piece and someone says, "this is how you play this tune, but don't play it that way. Play it your way."
I'd love to play it my way, but I don't know enough about playing music to have a way yet. I don't have enough inventory. 
Many years ago, when I was learning to write GUI software, I bought a text book. It was a good book and I learned a lot from it that helped over the years. But oddly, the only thing that I remember specifically from that book was a quote at the beginning of the first chapter: "One cannot discover new lands unless one is prepared to lose sight of the shore for a long, long time."
It feels like there's a very big, very wide ocean out there in front of me, with no visible paths to follow. I guess the only way to get to where I get I want to is to lose sight of the shore for a long, long time and figure this stuff out for myself. I just hope I don't get lost. |
| slipry1 |
Posted - 09/26/2017 : 08:30:57 AM
Eh, Thumbs! Remember when we were playing at a kanikapila at Common Grounds up in Wahiawa, and a young guy asked Duke how he got so good? Duke tole him "Is easy. Step one, da book; step two, no book". The kid was nonplussed, nut the rest of us were bowled over with laughter. It's true, tho. |
| thumbstruck |
Posted - 09/26/2017 : 04:54:01 AM
It all counts, but building your ear is more important than reading spots on a piece of paper. Don't stress, the more you do it the easier it gets. We live in a "performance" culture, where we observe the finished product and never the hours of learning and practice involved. This gives us a false sense of art and its genesis. |
| Eynowd |
Posted - 09/25/2017 : 11:00:28 PM
Is the "easiest" way to build inventory to keep on learning new pieces from tab, while watching YouTube or whatever to find the extra twiddly bits to throw in? |
| thumbstruck |
Posted - 09/24/2017 : 3:34:51 PM
Geoff, never give up. The "wall" is a signal that you will jump to the next level. Never lose sight of the fun and enjoyment factors. That's why we do it. Music is communication (OK, product, too, if you listen to the "suits"). Jus'press.
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