| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Mika ele |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 2:46:27 PM
Aloha Kakou,
I have had this nagging sensation for some years now that I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to a mixer, amplifier, and digital audio effects. This has been brought to my attention by squeals, pops, and odd sounds when I'm on the board or when I am performing. Do any of you have a good resource for learning how to;
(1) Equalize a room by guess (is 60 Hz and multiples a good rule of thumb?)
(2) Equalize a room using a laptop and the amplifier/mixer in the room you will perform in
(3) What is FBQ?
(4) What is XPQ?
(5) We normally hear reverberations and a "dry" sound feels unnatural. When do you add reverb to create a more comfortable sound?
(6) What is the difference between small room, big room, chapel, and cathedral digital effects?
(7) What are "ambience" effects and when would it be good to use them?
(8) When would one use flanger, chorus and other effects?
(9) What is AFL and PFL?
(10) When should I use Low Cut?
(11) When the vocalist states they want a "fatter" sound, what does that mean and how do you do it? Same for "it sounds tinny"?
Bottom line is where can I learn how to create an enjoyable sound experience -- assuming the fingers, guitar, and voice are inputing one? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Retro |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 11:52:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mika ele
An Irishman living in the south of France?
Well...I don't think "living" is an appropriate word for Mr. O'Brian now, is it?
Did he consider himself an Irishman? He was born in Buckinghamshire, his mother was English (of Irish descent) and his father was of German ancestry.
But hey - with the right digital effects, we can correct for all that... |
| Mika ele |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 10:54:47 AM
Would Patrick O'Brian (author of the Aubrey/Maturin Series) count as #3? An Irishman (who was) living in the south of France? |
| Trev |
Posted - 01/18/2010 : 02:29:13 AM
Two things? In one century? Gentlemen, you’re too kind! |
| chunky monkey |
Posted - 01/15/2010 : 5:00:24 PM
off the subject, but
Good heavens, are you sure? The 'Limey's' accidentally produced something good? Extraordinary!
Not since the Rolls Royce Merlin Engine in the P-51. |
| Lawrence |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 3:49:20 PM
You may achieve an equal effect by Ringing Out the Room
as Mark has indicated. If fact, due to a misunderstanding
of Acoustics and Electronics, you may find yourself in-
advertently reaching for the Suck Knob while trying to
Ring out the Room. This could indeed be what Raymond
was attemping in the above "Real World Problem Solving"
action sequence. 
(I have this picture mounted to the top panel of several of
my mixers)
|
| Mark |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 10:11:21 AM
quote:
Start with the EQ flat. Have all the microphones (turned on) and gear on stage. Turn up the
master volume, then each microphone volume until it starts to feedback and then back of
the micriophone volume below the feedback level.
That is called (among other things) "ringing out the room."
Please, for God's sake, do not do this when there is a band on stage, or anyone else in the room!!!!
And double please, for double God's sake, never ring out the monitors when the band is on stage.
I have lost quite a few hearing cells thanks to over enthusiastic sound operators who decided to set the EQ this way while I was supposed to be doing a sound check. Do it before the musicians have even parked their car, OK?
The worst offender, and I am not making this up, was a guy who'd got his job through a government re-training program. Yep, he'd lost his previous job--because of an accident that made him deaf!!!!!!
There are gentler ways to EQ a room. |
| ricdoug |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 07:49:05 AM
Is that an acronym - S.U.C.K?! Ric |
| RWD |
Posted - 01/14/2010 : 02:12:37 AM
All you have to do is turn down the suck knob 
 |
| ricdoug |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 10:38:33 AM
Here's my method for equalizing a room. I don't have white noise generators and other gear
like that. This works for me:
Start with the EQ flat. Have all the microphones (turned on) and gear on stage. Turn up the
master volume, then each microphone volume until it starts to feedback and then back of
the micriophone volume below the feedback level. Do this with each microphone until all are
adjusted. Next, turn up the master volume until it starts to feedback and "notch" out the
feedback with the equalizer controls. Turn the master volume down.Now, have the band play
and sing something steady like a 12 bar blues ditty and slowly bring the master volume up.
From here, lower the volume on the channels that are too loud and EQ each channel for the
right sound until all channels are balanced. Stop the playing and turn up the master volume
until it starts to feedback and do minute adjustments to the main EQ to notch out the
offending feedback frequency again. You are now balanced for an empty room, but will
have eliminated most of the initial headaches of the nasty feedback problems as the room
fills up. Then you will have to tweak the controls as you go.
The monitors are adjusted in a similar fashion, except that there are usually no individual
EQ controls for each channel. Just a volume control. Get the bands input on the stage
balance, as you will not be hearing what they're hearing on stage. Ideally, you'd have a
separate soundperson mixing the monitors at the stage. |
| Mark |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 09:45:16 AM
Mike-
I never said you don't need to have a bit of book larnin'-- quite the opposite. I told you to follow up on Lawrence's leads, and to check out Harmony Central. You can also learn a great deal from Sweetwater.com's "Words of the day" archives.
I also suggested you locate my book to learn about how a mixer works, which mic to use when, and basic info on digital effects. That's a lot of studying to do.
But I will stand by my comment that you need to listen--- and to learn from what you do.
Did I say that you should experiment at the gig? No, I did not. I assumed you'd take the suggestion of turning knobs and hearing what they do as a learning & practice exercise. And, like all practice, you do that on your own time. Invite a friend over (beer helps), set up the system, and try stuff out.
If you can't hear the difference between a "Small Room" and a "Cathedral" 'verb, either your FX program sucks (the usual case... sorry, but that's why the Big Dogs use real tools), or, maybe you just haven't spent enough time on it. It's like music-- you probably couldn't tell the difference between a major and a minor chord when you first started to play.
Above all-- It takes time. None of this stuff happens over night.
Lawrence, Dave or I could write out answers every single one of the questions you asked (save the ones about FBQ & XPQ, which I suspect are Behringer-speak) but it would do you absolutely no good without some hands- and ears- on practice.
However, you have given me an idea for a class at next June's Aloha Camp: "Live sound for musicians."
Good luck... and trust the Force.
BTW: The heron's the really big one standing in the marsh. And all the reading in the world won't prepare you for the majesty of a large heron rookery. |
| ricdoug |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 08:39:19 AM
Skipper, my friend Jon Bart of Quiet Voice was asked to run the sound by Jim Marabotto. Jon's a lifetime pro with a vast portfolio of experience. I doubt I'll make that show, due to work restrictions. Just walk up to Jon and introduce yourself. That's Jon on the left, so you'll recognize him, at a field target (air rifle) match:
 |
| Allen M Cary |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 08:20:33 AM
Aloha Mika ele, Aloha Kakou,
I'm kinda like you with the sound mixing. Sometimes I can hear the differnce and often, not. It can be subtle, that's for sure. I finally mixed a decent CD using Mark's method--I stopped diddling when it sounded good. Took quite a few iterations though. One thing's for sure about a lot of these sound engineering terms (eg AFL, PFL, FBQ, etc); once you know what they mean, you still don't know what they mean!
Aloha and mahalo for the advice,
Allen |
| Mika ele |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 07:25:54 AM
Mark,
I truly appreciate your comments about "listening" to the effect that you are implementing and determining if it sounds good. However, it is easier to listen for something specifically if you have an idea of what you are listening for. For example, I can look all I want at a wetlands and search for a Heron, but if I have no idea what one looks like I will assume every bird I see can be a Heron. I can have a sound system all set up with no feedback and the performers smiling, but when I select big room or chapel for reverb it usually sounds the same and they don't notice a change either. I'm listening for something, don't notice a change, and don't know if I need to walk around the room to see if it can be detected somewhere other than my vantage point. And to top things off, they usually "look at you funny" when they are practicing and you go flipping switches and adding effects to learn what they do and listen for the effect.
Lawrence,
Thank you for the links. I'm looking through them now. One forlearned is one forearmed.
Ric,
I'll see you after NAMM and we can chat -- Mahalo Leatherneck! Are you doing sound for Jeff Peterson and Amy at the Fallbrook Golf Club next Monday and Tuesday?
I do work with a Behringer mixer at one location and have read the manual (more of a button pushers guide). But like other manuals, the writers assume the reader has the same level of background knowledge and much that is not explained is assumed to be understood. The whole section on digital effects simply says you can select from the array of the 24-bit digital effects processor. |
| Trev |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 02:45:16 AM
SOS is definitely worth the sub (even though it is a Limey publication).
Good heavens, are you sure? The 'Limey's' accidentally produced something good? Extraordinary! |
| Retro |
Posted - 01/12/2010 : 8:01:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fran Guidry
It doesn't hurt to have enough book larnin' to know what gain staging, phantom power, cardioid, and plenty of other terms mean and how they apply to the job.
Indeed - ya gotta have the foundation, but Mark also noted that it's a combination of education and experience that makes it work.
And if you don't know about things like phantom power, I know some microphones that I will NOT put in your hands... |
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