| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ambrosius |
Posted - 12/31/2011 : 03:28:29 AM
Hello.
As a new-bee to steel string guitars, I'm wondering what nut width people are preferring? In earlier years I did play classical on a nylon stringed. For my project 'slack key explorations' I bought a A&L Ami, checking further it has a nut width of 1.72 (1 11/16?). I find it very narrow, but hoping I shall get used to it. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ambrosius |
Posted - 01/19/2012 : 07:45:47 AM
quote:
I experienced the very same thing on the very same song and ended up making the same decision you did based on this thread. Now you and I are owners of new Seagull guitars.
Terry, - you are my brother and a wise man  |
| TerryLiberty |
Posted - 01/19/2012 : 05:09:28 AM
quote:
I downloaded some of Keola Beamer's material available online. Among them the No Ka Po of which you have an excellent recording on Youtube. No Ka Po was my very first entrance to learning and understanding Hawaiian slack-key, and the intro or very first four measures on that piece gives a series of chimes which were impossible for me to obtain, still maintaining the 3rd, 4th and 5th strings giving the legato appearance Keola Beamer describes. Not with my fingers, not on that fret-board. Not without muting the 2nd string.
Ambrosius:
Sometimes coincidences amaze me. I experienced the very same thing on the very same song and ended up making the same decision you did based on this thread. Now you and I are owners of new Seagull guitars.
Regards. |
| Ambrosius |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 10:34:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by RWD
I have advice when it comes to saddles.
I think you should look this site over and read about the different material properies he offers. There will be some valuable knowledge to be gained concerning saddles nuts and pins on this site. The guy is great at answering questions by phone or email and I have purchased from him in the past.
One of my guitars has West african--my best classical guitar( it can be seen and heard on my latest Youtube entry) another oif my guitars is a custom Mauel that was supplied with fosilized walrus saddle & pins.
I encourage you to visit and read about the material characteristics on his site. It should clear things up a bit on the subject of what material is good to use.
http://www.guitarsaddles.com/
Hello RWD
First and most important, - I enjoy your recordings om Youtube. I came across your channel a while back, and pick it up now and then to listen to your recordings. You has been an inspiration to me, so thanks. It is funny really, that you of all people should chime in on this subject. I'll tell you why.
In waiting for Ozzie Kotani's material, which I were recommended by this forum as an excellent introduction to Hawaiian slack-key, I downloaded some of Keola Beamer's material available online. Among them the No Ka Po of which you have an excellent recording on Youtube. No Ka Po was my very first entrance to learning and understanding Hawaiian slack-key, and the intro or very first four measures on that piece gives a series of chimes which were impossible for me to obtain, still maintaining the 3rd, 4th and 5th strings giving the legato appearance Keola Beamer describes. Not with my fingers, not on that fret-board. Not without muting the 2nd string.
I have to shoot in, that this is my first experience playing on a steel-string guitar and the narrower fret-board, compared to a classic guitar.
So the four first measures there, which you do so well, was the very reason for changing from a guitar with 1.72 nut to one with a 1.80 nut, as well as the reason for lowering the action on the present
The site you are pointing to, - it seems to be small pieces of art. My initial thought was that would be an over-kill on a medium to low priced guitar, - and I feel that's what this thread is about, - improve play-ability and adaption to finger-style playing. On the other hand, seeing the impact replacing the factory strings did, why not try? I'd never sell the guitar with a nut or saddle like that on, though. Put the original back on, then. |
| RWD |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 1:27:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TerryLiberty
Bob:
What differences did you notice after changing?
Mahalo.
I chose the West African saddle because it was described as having more "highlights" (my description) and so it did! My guitar got a little brighter after the change.
One of the side effects of that was that finger noise and squeaks are now more of a challenge--it has become more responsive on the very high end. If I decide later that I want to lessen that effect, I may choose Fossilized Walrus or Elephant Ivory. BTW, fossilized=legally recovered ivory from the earth and not from live animals--they dig it up.
So if your guitar is too bright or not bright enough, you can change that to a some degree. In my case, it took my guitar to a point that puts me on the edge of going back a bit. But then, my classical guitar stared out having a fairly decent sound before hand.
My steel string Martin sounds just fine with the factory saddle but I often think about experimenting anyway.
The saddle material will make small sonic changes but it will probably not make a cheap guitar sound like a great one.
However, small changes on a good guitar can make a very nice difference.
I would also venture a guess that even a lesser guitar will benefit from changing plastic (or tusk) to bone or the others mentioned above.
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| TerryLiberty |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 12:05:07 PM
Bob:
What differences did you notice after changing?
Mahalo. |
| RWD |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 12:00:53 PM
I forgot to mention that the saddles I chose did make a difference. |
| RWD |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 11:47:56 AM
I have advice when it comes to saddles.
I think you should look this site over and read about the different material properies he offers. There will be some valuable knowledge to be gained concerning saddles nuts and pins on this site. The guy is great at answering questions by phone or email and I have purchased from him in the past.
One of my guitars has West african--my best classical guitar( it can be seen and heard on my latest Youtube entry) another oif my guitars is a custom Mauel that was supplied with fosilized walrus saddle & pins.
I encourage you to visit and read about the material characteristics on his site. It should clear things up a bit on the subject of what material is good to use.
http://www.guitarsaddles.com/
|
| RWD |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 11:45:29 AM
I have advice when it comes to saddles.
I think you should look this site over and read about the different material properies he offers. There will be some valuable knowledge to be gained concerning saddles nuts and pins on this site. The guy is great at answering questions by phone or email and I have purchased from him in the past.
One of my guitars has West african--my best classical guitar( it can be seen and heard on my latest Youtube entry) and the other a custom made Mauel guitar (also on Youtube). My custom Mauel was supplied with fosilized walrus saddle & pins.
I encourage you to visit and read about the material characteristics on his site.
http://www.guitarsaddles.com/ |
| Ambrosius |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 11:35:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TerryLiberty
Mahalo, Ambrosius and Keo for your responses. I've got to tackle mine and see what I can do as soon as the "backup" saddle arrives from Seagull.
Well I just asked in my guitar shop here in the middle of nowhere, and they came up with a box full of different kinds of saddles. A piece of sandpaper flat on the table, and take it down. Measure it before you start, though. And use a caliper measuring 1/10th of a mm, not a ruler. |
| TerryLiberty |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 10:54:41 AM
Mahalo, Ambrosius and Keo for your responses. I've got to tackle mine and see what I can do as soon as the "backup" saddle arrives from Seagull.
Regards. |
| GuitarVlog |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 10:11:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TerryLiberty
My Seagull still feels high at 3mm and 2mm.
Taylor's standard is 6-and-4-out-the-door. That's 6/64" and 4/64" (about 0.095" and 0.065", or 2.5mm and 1.6mm). That's an average which supposedly works well for most styles: pick strumming, fingerpicking, fingerstyle.
I've set both of my guitars to that standard. My understanding is that lower action can also reduce the volume of a guitar. Whether that reduction would be perceptible? I don't know. |
| Ambrosius |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 09:41:25 AM
quote:
I'm curious. What are your string clearances (bass and treble) at the 12th fret? My Seagull still feels high at 3mm and 2mm.
Terry, I bought a blank in tusq and stepped down gradually till now 1.8 and 1.2 mm. (Didn't want to mess with the original saddle). No buzzing of any kind, even with the 6th string tuned down to a C. Anyhow, I think changing the factory strings to the nano-coated Elixir(Light .011) did as much for the playability.
The guitar shop manager recommended them to me, should be great sounding with cedar tops. True, they sounds much better, but much easier to play on as well. |
| TerryLiberty |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 08:07:35 AM
Ambrosius:quote:
...a new and fairly lower tusq saddle...
I'm curious. What are your string clearances (bass and treble) at the 12th fret? My Seagull still feels high at 3mm and 2mm.
quote:
I enjoys it very much and it is rewarding.
Sounds like you've arrived at where we all want to be in out journey. Now, we need to begin seeing some You-Tube results of your efforts!! Maybe Auntie Wanda will put them on Mele Monday! |
| Ambrosius |
Posted - 01/18/2012 : 06:28:00 AM
quote:
Ambrosius, you're on your way to being a luthier.
Not in this life, thumbstuck. However, like most ladies, the Seagull I ended up with is starting to behave rather nicely with a little care, like they all do. A little lemon oil to the fret-board, new and light Elixir phosphor bronze with nanoweb coating, a new and fairly lower tusq saddle. Now glissandos up and down the neck without squeaking like an old cat. She sings just nice.
At the very same day receiving mr Kotani's book 'Guitar Playing Hawaiian style', which I were recommended by this forum, - no technical difficulties, just plenty of sound, harmonies and an easy fret-board to deal with.
I enjoys it very much and it is rewarding. |
| Russell Letson |
Posted - 01/14/2012 : 07:14:45 AM
Guitar design is interestingly complicated. Size matters, but not in isolation. One might wonder why the classical guitar--which traditionally has had to get along without amplification in concert halls and ensembles--has remained at pretty much the same size for so long. Luthiers have tackled the volume problem in a variety of ways (bracing, exotic top design) that keep the soundbox the same size. The steel-string guitar family, on the other hand, grew bigger and even changed fundamental soundbox structure (the archtop, the Selmer-Macafferri design), but along with those design changes came big changes in the sound character of the instrument.
In the flat-top part of the family, the big-box dreadnaught found its niche in country-music ensembles, where it could be heard *under* the fiddle and the banjo--not unlike the niche and function of 17- or 18-inch acoustic archtop in the big swing band. The popularity of the dreadnaught and the jumbo (e.g., Gibson J-200 or Guild F-50) flat-top among folk players from the late 1950s onward strikes me as partly tied to non-musical matters, including which folk hero played a particular model. Rev. Gary Davis played a J-200, so many of his students did too. (Asked about why he chose a Gibson, the Rev is said to have replied, "Because they play good in the rain.") In this, they're stage guitars as much as anything else. I've heard some examples of dreads and jumbos that sound mighty dead next to a Martin 00 or even my 0-18. It's all about the total design/construction formula.
String spacing--at the nut and bridge--seems to matter more to some players than others. As I wrote before, I'm used to a range of geometries, but I know fingerstyle pickers who really don't care for, say, the Guild formula (1-11/16" at the nut) and others who find the 1-7/8" of a couple of my guitars uncomfortable. I don't notice anything until I get down to 1-5/8 or so--and I do find my tiny Kumalae soprano uke harder to manage than my Martin concert past first position.
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