| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TerryLiberty |
Posted - 03/22/2013 : 10:04:28 AM
In a recent post, slipry1 mentioned a full duplex version of the Skype service and that it might be used for simultaneous (duet) playing between musicians in different locations. Has anyone tried this and does it work? If so, what do you need to do to make it work? Which version of Skype do you have to subscribe to?
I know that some teachers use Skype for instructions but I'm referring to true duet playing where both musicians play at once and can hear each other.
Mahalo. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| TerryLiberty |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 10:59:17 AM
You guys!!!! |
| Lawrence |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 10:16:05 AM
.
Wait! wait!
Can you send me a QSL?... I am trying for WAS and WAC status! 
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| Konabob |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 09:10:27 AM
AH6GT (Gecko Toes) , signing out |
| Lawrence |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 06:58:08 AM
.
Of course there is also single sideband suppressed carrier aka:SSBSC, which is actually what is used with most ham gear. (and ham is where we really get the Hawaiian connection going ) The big "advantage" of this communication method is that the receiver has to have a local oscillator to replace the suppressed carrier, which, when you tune slightly off the proper receiver frequency, makes the person you are receiving sound like Donald Duck! Imagine the possibilities that would ensue if people actually tried to play music together with such a system !! .
You guys have not yet discussed much about the speed of light and buffering (time delay) issues that are part and parcel of the thing you are trying to do (and have been endlessly discussed all over the web).
You should check out Ninjam if you want to be able to work around these time delay issues.
Carry on gentlemen...
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| TerryLiberty |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 06:17:28 AM
Peter:
LOL!! Thanks for refocusing and coming back to the original question in my behalf. I have similar responses to my question on other forums and I'm beginning to conclude that an affordable, available technology just isn't there. It was worth the question. BTW your book hasn't arrived yet but it shipped.
Jack and Bob:
That was a pretty educational exchange, you guys. Thanks for all the info!
73 OT |
| Konabob |
Posted - 03/26/2013 : 6:37:22 PM
Spent two hours today programming a new uhf radio. All this talk about sideband got me wired... sorry guys! Jack is a flippin' genius, no doubt about it!
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| Peter Medeiros |
Posted - 03/26/2013 : 5:49:11 PM
Wait! Slip, backaway from that keyboard slowly, real slowly and keep your hands where I can see them. And Konabob, put that mouse back in its holster real nice and easy and you keep your hands where I can see them. No sense both of you doing something you might regret later and you both get run out of Dodge for good.
Now it seems to me, that you guys should have a meeting of the minds, if not an actual meeting (which may or may not be possible later). Can you guys agree on sumthin’ or not. Terry’s question was pretty simple:
“I'm referring to true duet playing where both musicians play at once and can hear each other”.
I think this calls for a smiley face rather than a finger in the face, but I digress.
Maybe full duplex Skype is the solution or maybe using Skype is only part of the solution. There are other alternatives such as NINJAM (which is fine if you are full-on into Digital Audio Workstations) that have been used. But it may require additional software and learning an additional level of technology; and this additional stuff only gets in the way of playing music.
The point is that Slip and Alan Akaka are able to work together on a regular basis using the simplest version of Skpe at the lowest cost. And they are not alone. Other instructors in other disciplines are using Skype for long distance learning.
For now, the issue of latency is only going to be a problem if you are attempting to play duets just using Skype. In teaching, it isn’t necessary to be playing simultaneously. What is more important for the student at this point is to be watching and listening, asking questions, and playing. It is like a telephone conversation with a little bit of delay (okay a lot if there’s just little bandwidth available).
Anyway, I reckon I jes spoke my piece and I’m gonna mosey up to the kitchen and fix me some grub. The suns going down in Ktown.
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| Konabob |
Posted - 03/26/2013 : 4:12:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by slipry1
Konabob - If I can recall my radio transmission days, I believe that simplex is equivalent to single sideband, which is different than half duplex. The audio you get from simplex is "fuzzy", typical of Ham conversations.
No, sideband is a modulation mode that surpresses the main carrier frequency and one sideband - thus leaving you with a "single sideband".
From: http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/s/simptran.htm
"Alternatively referred to as simplex communication or simplex transmission, simplex is a one-way only communication standard. Broadcast information, or data, can only travel in one direction, versus duplex which allows for two-way broadcasting. Examples of simplex include radio broadcasting, television broadcasting, computer to printer communication, and keyboard to computer connections.
The second definition of simplex states that information can only be broadcast in one direction, at one time. Information can be broadcast in both directions in a simplex circuit, but not at the same time, like duplex. Another term for simplex is half-duplex. Back in 1928, Western Union completed the transatlantic telegraph cable, which was a simplex communication method. The National Fire Protection Association used a simplex radio channel for communications in 2002 as well."
Which answers the question; "What is half-duplex?"
If Skype were truely half-duplex, transmission would be "one way" --> Meaning the person talking could not see the person listening. |
| Peter Medeiros |
Posted - 03/26/2013 : 08:26:52 AM
Touché. |
| slipry1 |
Posted - 03/26/2013 : 07:28:04 AM
Terry - It sounds like you are still in half duplex, because you aren't hearing things simultaniously.
Konabob - If I can recall my radio transmission days, I believe that simplex is equivalent to single sideband, which is different than half duplex. The audio you get from simplex is "fuzzy", typical of Ham conversations. |
| Curtis |
Posted - 03/25/2013 : 1:03:18 PM
I take lessons on the free version of skype. Based on my experiences, it is currently not practical to play duets or jam with others on the free version. There is the slight lag time plus string frequency problems (e.g. I don't think some frequencies are picked up and carried over the web that well).
There are a few musicians... most notably Ryuichi Sakamoto with his opera Life in 1999... who have conducted concerts composed of musicians playing simultaneously around the world. This has been done for the past 14 years or so, but not without pretty high tech expensive stuff...
Then again, 5 years ago something like skype guitar lessons like the ones I'm getting now were not really practical. I tried to teach my sister 2 years via skype, and her internet speed and computer processing speed were so bad it just didn't work out...
Curtis |
| TerryLiberty |
Posted - 03/25/2013 : 11:42:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by slipry1
...the free version is half duplex on both PC and Mac frameworks. Alan Akaka and I see each other, me on PC, him on Mac every Friday. You have to pay a monthly fee for full duplex.
Jack:
Is the fee version the one they call "Skype Premium". Goes for $9.99 a month? I have that and I've had kinda poor results with it. I get on line with a cross-town friend and whenever I start to play, his incoming signal seems to get blanked out. As soon as I stop playing, I can hear him again. I'm wondering what I might be doing wrong. Prhaps the DSL web connection isn't fast enough to support both incoming and outgoing signals at once? Any thoughts?
Mahalo. |
| Ambrosius |
Posted - 03/25/2013 : 10:53:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TerryLiberty
Ambrosius:
Congrats on your recording upgrade! Yes, putting down accompaniment tracks and playing with them is fun and very helpful. Next step for me is a possible simultaneous duet with someone using full duplex Skype or something like it. I wonder if anyone out there has ever made it work.
Happy jamming!
Well I don't know Terry. It sure is a way to find out how you 'sucks' 
I would think timing issues, as Konabob implies, is what could hinder this to work. |
| Konabob |
Posted - 03/23/2013 : 8:24:20 PM
As a ham radio operator, we always describe a duplex system as one in which both ends of the conversation are heard at the same time - like a phone call.
We describe single sided communication (like car to car 2 way radio) as simplex. What exactly is half duplex? Just another word for simplex?
Maybe the "fee" version is a new feature that Microsoft has introduced. When I skyped the guy in England, I could hear his 'ukulele and he could hear my steel guitar simultaniously. This was several years ago.
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| slipry1 |
Posted - 03/23/2013 : 7:41:12 PM
Sorry, Konabob, but the free version is half duplex on both PC and Mac frameworks. Alan Akaka and I see each other, me on PC, him on Mac every Friday. You have to pay a monthly fee for full duplex. |
