| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| wcerto |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 02:40:50 AM
You know our dear Amy Ku`uleialoha Stillman is teaching at UH-Manoa this academic year as a visiting professor.
The following is from her haumana:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/44892694/2-What-is-Hawaiian-Music-Tyler-Et-Al#source:facebook
You may find of particular interest is that various Taro Patch posts have been used as reference material and apropriate attribution and citations have been used.
Boy do I wish my college classes were like this. Lucky students. Lucky kumu.
After y'alls read it dare I ask if we can have more good discussion or do you think we have beat the horse until he is not only make but make nui loa. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Basil Henriques |
Posted - 12/31/2010 : 08:07:30 AM
I've been absent for a while and upon returning I noticed the lack of activity in the Hawaiian Guitar section, so I wandered hither and thither looking for flotsam and jetsam and maybe a little article to paruse.
Perchance I meandered in this direction, and upon reading SOME of this post regarding "What is Hawaiian Music?" I got to thinking that your own local definition(s) vary somewhat to what is broadly known as Hawaiian Music within Europe.
I'll come back to the forum and try and let you know the perspective from a European point of view.
Methinks you'll be "entertained" by some of what I write.
Meanwhile, from myself and this ohana to you and yours, Hauʻoli Makahiki Hou.
Basil Henriques
ESGHoF |
| Retro |
Posted - 12/12/2010 : 09:14:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
Innovation and adaptation are part of the tradition.
Exactly; without them, things die. And the tradition can and should still be studied - not encased behind glass.
|
| thumbstruck |
Posted - 12/12/2010 : 08:27:50 AM
Innovation and adaptation are part of the tradition. |
| Retro |
Posted - 12/12/2010 : 08:13:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by noeau
So I guess Iʻm just trying to say that if we play the music of Hawaiʻi we are probably playing Hawaiian music.
And by phrasing it this way, please note, even Al is saying "my word is NOT law in this matter." Open to interpretation. Your mileage may vary. Don't fence me in. One size does not fit all. |
| noeau |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 8:52:16 PM
I ditto Amy K in all she says. I have tried to pass on the idea that while we respect the past and our elders we still can take the time to ask if something is accurate and true. If not, why not. And we all need to do the homework ourselves. We may get answers from those more schooled than us but we still need to decide whether we agree and then digest it more fully for each and every one of us so we may claim some form of ownership of the knowledge.
Every day we as players may have an opportunity to share our music. I have been asked to play Hawaiian music at various types of functions and every time I do I am thanked for reminding people about the beauty of Hawaiʻi and why they love the place so dearly. So far no one has asked if what I played was Hawaiian music. I am happy when people are affected in a positive way by what I play for them. But I also am transported back home when I play as well. So I guess Iʻm just trying to say that if we play the music of Hawaiʻi we are probably playing Hawaiian music. |
| Retro |
Posted - 12/11/2010 : 11:48:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by noeau
I ka ʻōlelo ke ola.
"...i ka `ōlelo nō ka make."
We need to remember that when we are tempted to dis others. |
| wcerto |
Posted - 12/10/2010 : 4:39:57 PM
`Ae. |
| noeau |
Posted - 12/10/2010 : 2:32:21 PM
I ka ʻōlelo ke ola. |
| wcerto |
Posted - 12/10/2010 : 1:55:10 PM
You probably have read the thread under Talk Story about the article in Honolulu Magazine about 100 years of Hawaiian music. It is very pertinent to this thread and I suggest you may want to read it. Mahalo to Amy Stillman, Harry B. Soria and all the others who contributed to the article.
http://www.honolulumagazine.com/Honolulu-Magazine/November-2010/100-Years-of-Hawaiian-Music/index.php?cparticle=1&siarticle=0#artanc |
| salmonella |
Posted - 12/10/2010 : 06:53:27 AM
I find, in my life, that often the difference between a question causing discourse and a question causing discontent is in how the question is asked, not so much what the question is.
In this thread, for instance, if I have understood the posts correctly, a good question for discourse may have been something like this....
"this song by (insert artist and link) has a different feel to it than this mele by (insert same artist and different link or different artist and link) what are the musical characteristics that differ between them and what are the reasons for, or causes of, these differences."
This enables the "experts" to help those of us who are not, to evaluate and make our own conclusions. It also cuts the elephatine question of "what is Hawaiian music" into manageable size pieces of digestible information.
And, not unimportant, it is not a subject line (for a post) that already makes anyone but the hardiest skip the thread completely and move on to threads less likely to raise their blood pressure.
Just a suggestion.
Dave |
| Trev |
Posted - 12/10/2010 : 02:49:42 AM
In the case of dictionaries, their function is do DESCRIBE how language is used, not to dictate what is ‘correct’. Far too many people seem to use it the latter way.
Language evolves, and varies from place to place. Dictionary definitions change over time, and over place. I was in an American aeroplane (airplane) and the pilot said that the plane would be landing ‘momentarily’. Apparently in America, this means ‘in a moment’. In the UK, it means ‘for a moment’. I was momentarily quite alarmed!
Similarly with traditional music, one can find tendencies, conventions that we can associate with one particular location. People learn from each other and things are passed down. But these, too, change and evolve over time.
An old flute player I knew said that in Ireland he used to be able to tell where people came from by the way they played – almost to the particular village. He said the greatest contribution to his musical education was getting a bicycle, so he could go and hear stuff from further afield. He went on to say that with the technology (which was probably cassettes at that time) people could learn from all sorts of sources, so certain regional ways of playing were becoming diluted.
Music has, and will, inevitably go through change and evolution. There are always people who find this exciting and vital, and there are always people who say ‘that’s not how they did it in the old days – it’s not ‘proper’ and they shouldn’t call it what we call our music’.
Time and time again in all sorts of musics, I’ve come across a fight between ‘traditionalists’ and ‘contemporary’ enthusiasts. I stay out of that type of thing – it never ends well. Suffice it to say I’ve a foot in both camps,
I wouldn’t claim to be an expert in anything, and certainly not in Hawaiian music. I know enough to know that there seem to be certain conventions that are common, but I would not presume to point a finger at any Hawaiian who played music and say ‘that’s not proper Hawaiian music’. I would think that’s a quick way to get a punch up the bracket.
|
| thumbstruck |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 5:09:23 PM
I am just grateful for friends to jam with and tunes to learn. Also, digital tuners. Jus' press. Sometimes the best analysis comes from jamming with your friends. Put something under glass and watch it die- what was that, Slipry1?
Some guy studying bugs, wonders why they don't move any more, forgetting that he pinned the bugs to the mat to better enable him to look at them. |
| Retro |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 3:38:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kuulei88
But in their sincere love for the integrity of the tradition, folks get caught up in "my way or the highway," often backed up by "my tutu said so."
All of us who post to TP should keep this in front of us as we write; thanks, Amy. |
| Russell Letson |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 3:17:00 PM
I can (somewhat nervously) claim expertise in two or three areas (Hawaiian music not among them), and the answer I find myself giving most often to non-factual questions is "It depends," followed by a list of factors that might affect whatever answer I am able to offer.
|
| RWD |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 1:05:44 PM
I had to break off finishing my entry due to work but I have added to it a little. It must have been as you were responding so there is a slight disconnect between the two.
I do understand your position.
|
