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 Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar / Hawaiian Music
 Hi'ilawe (IZ with B. Flanagan)
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Kapila Kane
`Olu`olu

USA
945 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2004 :  11:53:35 PM  Show Profile
This version has a dreamy guitar solo...appears to get spacey and almost lost...but lands on da feet, and creates a stoney-like velvet groove...whatever that is....
It's fun to get musically adrift and find your way home--if you're open minded and "trust the force".

I'm chippin' away at Hi'ilawe as played on "Alone in IZ World", with Barry Flanagan on Slack guitar. It's in A with a last refrain in C...
Does anyone have a take on probable tunings...

The other version with Mel Amina sounds like Taropatch with capo up 2...
But Barry's sounds more "up the neck" in voicings and open resonance.
There may be a second guitar, but not sure til I get in the headphones...
My first guesses is maybe a D tuning up 7 frets, or standard with dropped D up a 5th..

I recall seeing that Hapa used standard tuning at times...
But the reason I post is...I Just DUNNO da answers--and would prefer to spend more time actually Kanikapila and learning the words!

And speaking of words--I have a version from Owana Salazar/Ocean Kaowili., and there's a couple spots where IZ uses "Te Tua hiwi" instead of "Ke Kuka hiwi"
and "Ta MaTua" instead of "Ka MaKua" And of course, IZ would never change words to a song!

Is this a gender language thingy-- or am I Deaf...(heck, I struggle with English, so Hawaiian is tricky for me!)
Ok, time to report to my 12-step group for people who talk too much--ONandONandON.
Thanks,
Gordo

Lawrence
Ha`aha`a

USA
1576 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2004 :  12:34:05 AM  Show Profile
The "T" replacement for "K" is not really a word change but a dialect change. The T sound is prominent in Tahitian and some other polynesian toungues and is also spoken in Hawaii especially among those who harken back to the Tahitian migration to Hawaii. I am not an authority on this but I have noticed that in the south and east part of the Big Island and also in Hana Maui the T sounding is more popular for certain words.

Kinda like that ther surthern talk back thar in Joeja.. ya know.




Mahope Kakou...
...El Lorenzo de Onda Sonora
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Reid
Ha`aha`a

Andorra
1526 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2004 :  11:33:29 AM  Show Profile
Adding to what Lawrence said...

The T is most heard in the speech of people from Ni`ihau, mostly because they have been isolated so long by the Robinson family.

The T for K (as well as R instead of L and P/B - remember Boki, the chief of `Oahu?) was common before the missionary committee decided (after much discussion) that the language spelling and pronounciation should be standardised. The sounds of the phonemes were actually somewhere in the middle of the two latin letters (mostly - sometimes, they were hit hard and landed on one side or the other). It was the missionaries who brought the Latin alphabet, of course, and that alphabet doesn't even work well for English, let alone a Polynesian language. You will also hear, of course, w pronounced as "v", depending on the letters near it, as in pu`uwai. There is a really good book called "The Voices of Eden" by A. J. Schutz that describes all this and more. Before I read this book, I was quite upset by what the missionaries did to the language, but after reading this, my position is softened: they were between a rock and a hard place with the alphabet and they really gave it a lot of careful thought. Nonetheless, I really like the T in songs, where appropriate, of course.

...Reid (not Lied :-)
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pili
Aloha

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2004 :  12:30:15 PM  Show Profile
aloha,

In addition to the "k/t" consonant shift discussed by Reid and Lawrence, you will also sometimes hear an "s" substituted for the usual "k" in song and chant, usually at the discretion of the singer/chanter. This substitution even shows up in the title of a song by Queen Lili'uokalani, "Sanoe". ("Sanoe", a name or nickname = "ka noe" = "the mist".)

BTW, the words you heard in Hi'ilawe are actually one word, "kuahiwi", meaning "mountain".

(I've said it before, I'll say it again... we can't play Hawaiian music without Aunty Kawena's great gift to us all, the Hawaiian dictionary... and it's got to be the big hardback, not the little paperback. Even if someone doesn't sing, the words are the mana'o, and understanding them some will transform your playing. You'll spend hours just browsing through the dictionary, too... it's more than just words and definitions... uku lots culture and tradition, too.)

a hui hou,
Pili
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cousinbubba
Aloha

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2004 :  02:15:21 AM  Show Profile
Aside from the lyrics, there is the question of tunings.
While a little familiar with the specific CD version--the exact combination of tunings is a little vague.
The jump from C to A sounds like two guitars switching (two players, or an overdub?)
But you could be right, the opening seems to have taropatch-- capoed 2--but the higher voicing guitar sounds capoed up higher(yea, yea, maybe 7, with a variant of D tuning to land in A...but the guitar voices intertwine, and are subliminal at times--difficult to distinguish parts!
I referred to Keola's discography for Hi'ilawe tunings--and theres everything you can imagine--but doesn't solve your interest in the specific voicings here in IZ's Hi'ilawe.

Does B. Flannagan have a double neck guitar?
And the jump to C sounds like a sudden move to C wahine or open C--which is either a third guitar, a punch-in, pulling a capo of one of the guitars, (a double neck guitar?) or some quick manuevering.
But kinda feels/sounds like a live cut for the most part.
It would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall that day in studio!
While I agree it's fun to intermittently do extensive dissecting and learning of someone else' techniques, you may need to focus on the challenges of the words and singing--IZ's range is bear to pull off...full, and shifts to and from head voice with great quality and consistency.
Some great singers just open their mouths and it happens.
But most spend years getting their sound. The placement, control, shaping of sounds, and resonance in the mask are perhaps eventually unconcious, but are the result of work and or experience...
This is not an easy thing to do WELL...so, practice with Aloha and experiment!
Seems like this topic wasn't of much interest to most. Does anybody have mobetta tuning ideas on this Hi'ilawe?
It's a great tune.
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Darin
Lokahi

USA
294 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2004 :  10:58:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit Darin's Homepage
Barry doesn't play a double neck guitar. Generally, he exclusively plays his old sunburst Washburn with the original pickup from twenty-something years ago. He owned a guitar built by Stephen Grimes a few years ago, built to same specs as the Washburn. I think the guitar eventually ended up in John Yamasato's hand (Pure Heart vocalist).

Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu

USA
540 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2004 :  4:13:20 PM  Show Profile
Whoa there...

Nothing so extreme as double necked guitars or retuning.

Most likely done in a studio. One part played, another in another tuning added. If you think a player is changing keys, or tunings mid song, the engineer is doing their job well I suppose.


That said, Barry Flanagan certainly CAN change tunings mid song. Watched him do it for particular runs on certain pieces. Usually just the high D/E string to change between standard and TaroPatch.


The guitar most often associated with him is a Washburn Monterey.
The pre-version of the EA20-mts. His guitar was re-necked. The traditional V shaped headstock of the Washburn is now more squared off, and the name FINN on the headstock is his recording lable.

Happy Slacking

my Poodle is smarter than your honor student
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Kapila Kane
`Olu`olu

USA
945 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2004 :  02:29:34 AM  Show Profile
Thanks to all for info on language, tuning ideas, B. Flanagan's guitar and playing and all that--probably time to let this rest for awhile---- unless someone comes up with some other tuning/modulation strategies for playing this version!

And I'm ordering the dictionary too!
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Admin
Pupule

USA
4525 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2004 :  03:25:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Send Admin an AOL message  Send Admin an ICQ Message  Send Admin a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by gordonrburt

I'm chippin' away at Hi'ilawe as played on "Alone in IZ World", with Barry Flanagan on Slack guitar. It's in A with a last refrain in C...
Does anyone have a take on probable tunings...
Cool coincidence today. I was fortunate to randomly run in to Barry Flanagan and asked him about your questions.

I hope that I get this right. This happened hours ago and I ate a huge meal in between...

Barry was kind to share that he recorded 3 guitar tracks on Hi`ilawe. One track in standard tuning, one in C tuning (CGDGBE) and one in standard capoed at the 5th fret. He commented that the capoed guitar track is what gives the song distinct voicings resulting in a James Taylor-esque feel. With the capo at the 5th fret, it's like playing an `ukulele tuned to GCEA. He also mentioned that he wished the mix had been a little louder on the other standard guitar track on which he played "Bach like bass runs".

When talking to him, I didn't realize that the song is in A so I'm not sure how these tunings apply pre/post modulation.

Anyway, it sure is cool bumping in to people and getting answers directly from the person who recorded it. Mahalo to Barry for sharing and to the Taropatch `ohana for giving me things to talk about.

Aloha from O`ahu.

Andy
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