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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
 Posted - 07/23/2004 : 01:03:27 AM
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Well, I've been increasingly curious about what's available and recommended from Sonny Chillingworth's canon. I'm aware of three transcriptions in Mark Hanson's book; but are there others available? Also, what are the best samples or collections on cd?
And I'm also interested in his student--Makana. His playing and singing are inspirational. An interesting extension of Sonny's legacy. It reminds me of the mentorship of Mark O'connor (the world's best fiddler) under Benny Thomason in the 70's.
G
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2004 : 10:39:38 AM
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Aloha e Gordon,
Stropes Editions has a very detailed tab of Moe 'Uhane. It's pricey, but it's supposedly tediously transcribed using fancy equipment, from Sonny's recording. Between this and Hanson's you'd get a good sense of the piece.
http://www.stropes.com/index.php?fa=13&glbm=1
I don't know of any other Sonny tabs out there, although Ozzie Kotani was a student of Sonny's and knows Sonny pieces, and has presented some in workshops.
aloha,
Sarah |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2004 : 2:52:16 PM
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I like the Stropes version better...some of the fingerings make more sense to me than Hanson's. It's also meticulously done.
Craig |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 07/24/2004 12:37:54 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 5:25:09 PM
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Craig, we and Ozzie agree with you. Oz said that Sonny's fingering was as on the Stropes edition, not Hanson's version. So, that's why it makes more sense to you (and Sarah and me, too)- especially the use of the g on the 5th fret most of the time and the g on the 8th fret only as an accent or variation. In addition, other ornamentation is on Stropes and not Hanson, and some of it is lots more complex than one might imagine. It ain't as simple as Hanson says it is.
Uncle Ray's Dancing Cat "Punahele" (the long, complex version that sounds like a baroque lute piece) is also exactly correct in the Stropes version. Hanson's version is only an approximation, and contains no more than half of the recorded piece. I have an email from Hanson that is quite frank about it, though he says nothing about it in the book.
Hanson's book *is* quite good, but it ain't what Stropes' trancriptions are and it ain't "exactly as played". Stropes is worth every penny, especially as a way to learn.
...Reid
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Edited by - Reid on 07/24/2004 5:26:12 PM |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 8:50:36 PM
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Actually Mark Hanson says very clearly at the beginning of his book that the transcriptions are likely not the same fingerings as the original recordings. It is worth noting that most of these players, Sonny included, would play a piece somewhat differently each time, so a particular transcription is only a snapshot of how it was done at one particular time, usually for a recording.
Also, I play mostly the Hanson version of Moe Uhane and played it for Ozzie and Ozzie himself suggested that my playing was too complex in a few places and insisted that Sonny would do it in a much simpler way. He said I was "working too much", but if the piece sounds good, then complexity should not be a issue.
I have several Stropes transcription books and they are mostly note for note accurate in regard to pitch (but not necessarily fingering)and so is most of the stuff I have from Hansen as well.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 11:41:12 AM
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So I'm larnin'.
Before I asked, I was unaware of the Stropes edition...
Thanks again to all the taropatch...
Perhaps it's time for a renewed, probably old topic...People's Choice Awards for materials!
As I said in my Landeza inquiry, there's so many materials (dis is good) that sometimes we hastily say, "ENOUGH!
But then we realize, we haven't arrived.
A thousand question journey begins with one small question...
G |
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Gary
Aloha
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 12:10:26 AM
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I'm curious as to the tunings Sonny is using on songs with respect to the "Endlessly" CD release, beside Hula Blues. Does anyone have a list of the songs with their tunings? Or maybe, you could list what you have.
Thanks
Gary |
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 04:53:59 AM
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| What is Stropes and where would one get it? LRR |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 05:24:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Leonard
What is Stropes and where would one get it? LRR
Go to www.stropes.com |
Andy |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 06:22:32 AM
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There's another "Moe `Uhane" transcription, done by Andrew DuBrock for the Acoustic Guitar magazine "Off the Record" feature I wrote in May 2000. We fussed over some of the details (whether Sonny would have played it entirely two-fingered [on the right hand], how he managed those descending arpeggios in the second section), and I queried Ozzie about them. I'd have to go back through my correspondence for exactly how we decided among the possibilities, but I do recall concluding that Sonny must have played two-fingered. (Oz told me about the damaged ring finger.)
I agree that the Stropes transcriptions are the most obsessively complete and accurate reproductions of the recorded versions--but I'll add that Greg Pang (one of Sonny's students back in the 60's or 70's) told me that Sonny's demonstration of how to play a given passage could change from lesson to lesson.
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 01/07/2005 8:22:42 PM |
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Gary
Aloha
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 10:38:28 AM
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Dave:
Thanks a bunch.
Would you know a place I could get the English translation of the songs Sonny sang in Hawaiian on the Endlessly CD?
Gary |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 1:50:55 PM
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Russell,
Although I am a teacher and mentor to some, I am always going to be a life long student. I learn from everybody including my students, I listen and I watch. As for slack key I have been very fortunate to having been born into a family that practiced the tradition. I was also fortunate enough to be mentored by my dad, Peter Moon, Liko Martin and the late Sonny Chillingworth. They were kind enough to show me their style of slack key. I maintained my relationship with each one of them for years.
With Sonny there were a number of us whom he would call his protoges. Unlike one in particular in this group, I do not go around proclaiming I was Sonny’s protégé (I was more or less his portagee) I keep a lower profile. For me it was an honor to be considered punahele, but I felt a little bit odd about it. Artistically I was well developed, doing concerts, clubs and fairly well known as a teacher by the time I met him. I referred a lot of my advanced students to him when I moved to the mainland. The names that come to mind are George Kuo, Ozzie, Wayne Washburn, Matt Nakamura and several others.
In concert, when it came to Sonny’s playing or any of the really good players, besides telling the story, making a statement was part of the game. Almost without exception a song would never be played the same way twice. The same situation occurs in instruction. I’ve transcribed more than three versions of Whee Ha Swing. I could rehearse and rehearse and I might nail it but there would always be something just a little bit different the next day when I’d go back.
There is a world of difference between playing at home and playing with other people. There is a working dynamic within the group when you’re jamming, the group members are constantly interacting with one another, the phrasing always changes. The main concern when we would get ready for concert was getting the intros and outros down. Because that’s what the audience would remember. If there are solos or counters (counterpoint), that would be worked on also.
Improvisation is the glue keeps the pieces interesting and new. Slack key is nowhere near jazz improvisation. There are differences in simple improvisation between jazz and folk music. In jazz improv there is more freedom within the rhythmic, melodic and harmonic elements, you can play within the structure or outside (Miles?). With slack key being a folk music, the cultural conditioning and the tuning immediately limits the harmonic component in terms of improv. This doesn’t mean that it’s impossible it’s just that finding acceptance beyond the I, IV, V7 or I, ii, IV, V7 formulas raises the hackles on some people. Then again when you are listening to the Kahauanu Lake trio, think Stan Kenton’s Big Band; or if you’re listening to George Helm, think Kahauanu Lake; or if you’re thinking Ozzie, think Keola Beamer, George Helm, Sonny Chillingworth, Gabby, Peter Medeiros and a few others. Now think of Aunty Alice Namakelua and this progression I-V7.
Personally, my first two choices for improv would be two great artists who are rarely mentioned if ever, and they are Peter Moon and Atta Isaacs. For Peter, like me, he is not included in the “Masters” group, because like me, he pissed off enough people to be excluded. Then again who are the guys picking these masters and why? For Atta, he died before there was so much interest outside Hawaii and he was quiet.
These two artists, consistently, broke through the harmonic structure. Yet, their phrasing still retains this feeling of Hawaii. Their use of passing chords is untouched by any of the current crop, with one exception, Cyril, who by no coincidence played for years with them.
Later this year I will be publishing an anthology on slack key. It is a collection of pieces by several players and a comparative analysis of a number of pieces. Included in it will be a substantial number of Sonny’s, Gabby’s and Leonard Kwan’s compositions as I know and teach them. It is in both nomenclature and tablature so you should be able to read it and understand it no matter where you are in the world. This is not a me too project, but is based upon thirty four years of field research and because now I have hard evidence that others are using my work and I have to stop the bleeding.
Peter
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 2:18:23 PM
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I look forward to your anthology Peter.
Perhaps "Whee Ha Swing" might be included?
In a book by Matt Glasser on Grappelli (bowed ukulele master) he included duplicate renditions as a study on Stephane's improvisation approach...
So I would love to see a couple of the variations of an artist included. Sorta like the impressionists painting the same location at different times.
But no matta, I look forward to publication, and appreciate the edifying info you offer here.
Hey Andy, wheere's spelchek?
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Pops
Lokahi
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 5:04:11 PM
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Peter,
Please let us know when your work will be published and how we can order it. I'm looking forward to it. |
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