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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
 Posted - 12/07/2004 : 10:14:20 AM
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Hi -
A buddy of mine and I were discussing this whole phenomenon of home recording and we were wondering what would be the five to ten biggest questions someone just getting into it would want to ask. We were thinking of ways we could improve our respective businesses -- he gets a lot of home studio projects sent to him for mixing, I review semi-pro gear for Electronic Musician and do some mixing and mastering.
(Well, actually we'd drunk too much coffee and were just shooting the breeze, but hey...)
It seems to me there is a great deal of interest in this topic here at TaroPatch, so I'd like to put it out to everyone.
I'm not looking for recording techniques, tips, war stories, requests for specific gear recommendations or any long-winded answers, rather a set of general questions. For those of you doing some home recording, or comtemplating it, what would you like to know?
Here are some of the things Ron and I were kicking around, but we don't know if we are on the mark or not.
1) What's the best sample rate?
2) What's the difference between parametric and graphic EQ?
3) What's a compressor do and how do I use one?
4) What's mastering?
5) What's a bus?
As you can see, we tend to think of things from the standpoint of someone who is already pretty far down the path -- I'm guessing there are more basic questions that we haven't thought of.
What's the benefit to you? Well, given that there are some folks here -- Mr. Dog, Lawrence, Fran come to mind -- who have a great deal of experience, you are sure to get those questions answered.
So ask away. I'm all ears.
Mark-o
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 11:37:35 AM
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Hi Mark,
I have asked Lawrence some of those questions you posed (because I recently got an Echo Gina3G and Audition) and the answers were pretty easy to came by after we started exchanging emails. For instance, if the music is destined for CD, we came to the conclusion that 24 bit/44.1khz was the best bet, because the file sizes are smaller than at 96khz, we can't hear the difference when we downsample (especialy at higher freqs), downsampling from 96khz involves pre and post filtering and can add errors of its own. If the music is destined for DVD, then the standard *is* 96khz. This is pretty simple to figure out. The same with parametric vs. graphic EQ. Just using Audition 1.5 shows that, with the newer software, the results, and even the mechanisms are close to being the same. I mean, I can put a narrow notch, for instance, just about where I want it with the new graphic EQs.
So, the bottom line from a semi-newbie, is to think some more about who your target audience is. The hardest damned thing in the world is to figure out where to put your mics.
OK, kick me. You got a long-winded answer :-)
...Reid |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1574 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 12:04:52 PM
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Here's a baker's dozen:
1. What do I need to get sound into my computer? I'm on a tight budget, so what is the least expensive setup that will give me a decent recording of me playing by myself.
2. What do I need to be able to play then go back and sing over my playing?
3. I'm recording through the Mic In on my soundcard but I only get mono. How do I get stereo?
4. I'm confused about microphones. What is a condenser mic? Why should I have one? Do I need one? What kind of microphone should I buy?
5. Where should I put the microphone? When I put it right by the soundhole it's really bassy. When I move it farther away it sounds funny and I hear my computer in the background.
6. Should I buy a (Zoom/Fostex/Boss/Yamaha) digital recorder or use my computer?
7. What's a preamp? Why would I want one?
8. Do I need a mixer?
9. Where can I get free recording software?
10. What does recording software do? Why do I need it?
11. How do I burn a CD?
12. How do I soundproof my room? There's a motorcycle gang that meets up the street and when they ride by my recording is ruined.
And the one I REALLY want the answer to:
12. How do I make my recordings sound as good as "Soliloquy" by Keola Beamer?
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 12:46:23 PM
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Mark,
Reading Fran's response made me realize that I did not express myself well. I apologize.
I'll try again.
It is not so much "what", but "why or when" do I use something, and "how" do I use it properly.
And, Fran, you are so right about 12. I have ripped tracks off it (and Dennis Kamakahi's DC CD - because his pieces are so much like what a single "unprocessed" artist would do - *but* he is processed) and analyzed the hell out of them, and I think I know about 1% of what they did to make it sound like that.
Also, I took your advice, Mark, from an earlier post and hawked rec.audio.pro and your other suggested sources for weeks.
And Fran, your advice about mic experimentation.
Thanks, both,
...Reid
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Edited by - Reid on 12/07/2004 12:48:20 PM |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 1:09:09 PM
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Mark,
Leave it to you to reopen this can of worms. STOP DRINKING COFFEE. I've had your coffee, it'll keep you awake for days. To answer #s 4 and 5 on your list;
4) Mastering is what Keola, John, Kevin, etc do for a living
5) On Oahu it's called Da Buss and it's what gets you around the island cheaply.
Darin,
Great link. Everyone who's interested in recording should read it. If it tells us anything, its that we need to make good recordings that should be left up to good studios and good engineers. I do a lot of my own parts in my home studio, but I still go to my producer to record the backup players and put it all together.
Reid,
Yes, 24/44.1 is the way to go for getting to a CD. It's not the size of the file, but the amount of loss in the dithering process to get to a 16 bit CD. Even with a pair of flat response Yamaha NS-10 studio monitors I can hear the difference between 96 and 48 or 44.1, but not after it's converted to 16 bit.
Fran,
You should "Sample" the motorcycles and sell them to biker hop-hop artists. I have to time my recordings between planes landing at San Jose. As for Keola's recording, I'm sure Mark could answer that one. He's Da Kane behind a lot of Keola's recordings.
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All,
These are all good questions. I'm still working on my next Recording Techniques which will focus more on Tracking and Editing. I think the best way to get to the nitty-gritty of answering these questions would be for those of us in the know to share more links or articles. Electronic Musician and Tape Op are the two mags everyone should be getting. Tape Op is awesome and it's FREE. Just go to TapeOp.com and sign up.
Mahalo,
Mr. Dog |
Edited by - `Ilio Nui on 12/07/2004 1:11:34 PM |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 6:12:31 PM
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Time for me to chime-in...
OK... C____H____I____M____E
Now is that a 5th, 7th or 12th fret?....
Nope! it's an artificial!  (snare rim-shot goes here)
I gather you want questions not answers and I think Fran has
gotten a pretty good list together, with lots of emphasis on
"how". And Dr. Dave has put up some pretty good beginning
tutorials. Are you trying to get a newbie FAQ list together
for an upcomming book? The Roger McGuinn DVD discussed
on another thread probably covers the beginning stuff pretty
well, at least by what I saw on the "preview".
The question "why" is a little more subtle and has to to with
the ability to hear what sounds good and to know what is wrong
when it doesn't sound good. Some of that comes with experience
and some comes with training. Like for instance I need more
pitch training, but I can hear the less than 1% distortion of
a guitar pickup when the batteries are getting low and when the
mics and speaker aren't flat, and when the crickets are singing
or the clock is ticking way off in the distance during a recording.
For a few years I tried to teach electronics to Musicians at UCLA,
to enable them to use the Electronic Music Studio and at least
partly understand what they were doing. In order to get a good
sound on a regular basis (instead of by accident) some Physics is
required (but you don't have to call it that). I'm not talking
oxygen-free copper and Litz-wire here, but something like
understanding that if you take a one-pound brick and raise it
1 foot you have expended one watt. There is always a way to
connect solid practical theory and technique.
So what are you wanting here?
So - do you mean like - Why add Reverb? (or better yet, why you don't
want to add reverb most of the time and even then only put in 1/3 to
1/10 as much as you really want to) 
OR "Where is that SUCK KNOB on my mixer?! It has got to be here
somewhere and somebody has turned it up !" 
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 12/08/2004 10:33:22 AM |
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Mark E
Lokahi
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 7:20:48 PM
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Fran -
Bravo on your questions! I'd love to hear the answers. You make me suspect that I'm not alone in feeling that I know more Hawaiian (which is mostly aloha and mahalo) than I understand a lot of what these guys are talking about.
Mark (E) |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 8:57:14 PM
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Hey Lawrence and whodever...
A great player in Austin once explained his philosophy about reverb in da studio.
He recommends, "ya'll turn it up till there's just a LITTLE TOO MUCH, and then...you turn it up just a little bit more!
True story.
Meanwhile, back at the topic... |
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lat21north
Aloha
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 09:24:52 AM
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Questions to add to Fran's list:
14. Is free software any good?
15. Are most sound cards created equal?
Mahalo nui,
Bill |
E holo mua
Bill |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 09:27:44 AM
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Interesting -- I ask for questions and get answers.
Thanks for your list Fran -- that's what I'm looking for. However, as you, Lawrence & Dave well know -- you already know this stuff. Which tends to color the questions somewhat.
So I want to hear from you folks who don't know. Yes, there are tons of sites with tons of info. Yes, there are books, DVDs, CDRs, schools, workshops etc ad infinitum. But I still get questions like the ones I got asked recently: "Could a professional studio make my recording sound better? If I want to send my song to a pro studio, do I just burn it to an audio CD?"
Basic? You betcha. That's exactly what I want to know -- what are the real basic questions?
I don't want the answers, or opinions, or stories or links, helpful though they may be -- guys, I've been doing this professionally for a loooooong time. I kinda have a handle on that end of it.
quote:
So, the bottom line from a semi-newbie, is to think some more about who your target audience is. The hardest damned thing in the world is to figure out where to put your mics.
Now THAT's what I'm talking about.
Reid, my target audience is people like you, who want to record at home and want to know how to make their recording sound like Keola's. I thought I was pretty clear when I said quote:
we were wondering what would be the five to ten biggest questions someone just getting into it would want to ask.
So what were the questions you asked Lawrence?
cheers
Mark
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 09:29:05 AM
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quote:
And the one I REALLY want the answer to:
12. How do I make my recordings sound as good as "Soliloquy" by Keola Beamer?
Two words: Bernie Grundman.
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 09:47:48 AM
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- What equipment do I need? Like most things people usually upgrade their equipment (hardware & software) as their interests and needs grow. How about a comparison of 3 sample set ups... basic, intermediate, advanced. I usually do not see things explained in this context.
- Recording my sound... i.e. mic placement, ideal room characteristics, etc. Lots of tips and tricks here where experience helps bigtime.
- Signal processing. Adding reverb, compression, eq, etc. This is all greek to me. When you don't know what you're doing, is it better to do nothing at all?
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Andy |
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lat21north
Aloha
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 4:46:53 PM
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Hi Mark-o,
I'll be glad to take up the beginner challenge--unlike Fran, I do not know the answers. One fairly thorough website,
home.earthlink.net/~rongonz/home_rec/background.html
provides an overview of recording. And "howitworks.com" or something like that describes some basics about CDs and compression. After reading that material, the questions I would ask would basically be 1 through 15 above (basic), followed by 1 through 5 and then by 1 through 3 (more advanced). This goes beyond your five or ten questions, but there is a bit of overlap so maybe it can be trimmed down.
It sure looks like there is a lot of interest in recording. Answering some of these questions would be a real service. You could be kaulana loa.
Bill
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E holo mua
Bill |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2004 : 5:52:05 PM
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Mark,
Quoting yourself:
quote:
"So what were the questions you asked Lawrence? "
I'll give you a hint... they end with this little symbol --> ?.
like in:
quote:
"So - do you mean like - Why add Reverb?"
or:
quote:
"Where is that SUCK KNOB on my mixer?"
(a.k.a. why does my stuff sound so bad - the most common question
asked by newbies on many of the audio recording sites i frequent,
a.k.a. why does my stuff NOT sound like Bernie Grundman)
and:
quote:
"Are you trying to get a newbie FAQ list together for an upcomming book? "
and:
quote:
"So what are you wanting here?"
Both directed to you and only one of which have you answered
indirectly.
I did some exposition on some of the background issues, partly
to indicate that the question that needs to be answered is not
necessarily the one asked. For instance "the suck question",
which when presented on recording sites results in many other
questions and usually a file transfer so the folks can hear
what "sucked", and then usually boils down to just a few simple
things.
But a beginner recordist FAQ with answers to the top 40 questions
(ten is not enough) would be a pretty good thing to have.
Cheers,
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 12/09/2004 4:53:01 PM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2004 : 09:15:11 AM
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Sorry, Lawrence, I thought I'd ansewred your questions. I'll be more direct:quote:
"Are you trying to get a newbie FAQ list together for an upcomming book?"
Not necessarily, though it would be an interesting idea. I passed on the chance to write a digital recording basics book a couple years back cuz the time::compensation ratio didn't cut it.
More a matter of simple curiosity and a desire to do a better job as a writer and consultant (me) and studio owner (my bud.)quote:
and:
"So what are you wanting here?"
Simply a list of questions that beginners want to know.
Interesting thread so far, tho'.
What I'm gleaning from the few replies so far is that no one knows what questions to ask.
F'rinstance: "Why does my stuff sound so bad?" raises it's own set of questions; the most basic being, "What did you do to make it suck in the first place?"
In years of writing about home recording, and reviewing gear, I have noticed that we so-called experts often make assumptions about what the end user knows or doesn't know.
For example, the manual for the new Roland VS-2000CD I just reviewed is organized based on the "files and folders" model in the software, rather than by operational function. So, if you do not know before hand how to do some fairly basic studio tasks, you'll be wandering in the wilderness for a long time. And I think this is one of the best home recording units I've seen yet!
Here's a short list of the things I get asked the most from people already wandering down the home recording path, (aside from the ones you and Fran offered, natch) No particular order.
1) What's the gain knob do?
2) Why can't I hear any sound in my speakers/headphones?
3) Can I plug my mic & guitar input into the same channel if it has both kinds of jacks?
4) Now that I've recorded something, how do I get it on a CD?
5) How can I make it sound louder?
6) Can I use my computer's speakers, or do I need headphones?
You will notice that these are a lot more specific than: "How do I record my guitar and make it sound good?" When someone asks me that, I start asking them questions that let me know what they've done so far...
So, in short, what do I want? Lists of questions from newbies. You guys with new software, hardware, etc. What confuses you? What do you think you need to know to use this stuff? Go ahead and be platform specific if you want -- I can generalize. (Basically, a channel insert works the same way in Cubase as it does in ProTools, as it does on, say, the Tascam 788.)
And here I thought this was such a simple request.
Onward!
Mark-o, the Ever Inquiring |
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