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Bijou
Akahai
USA
51 Posts |
 Posted - 05/06/2009 : 12:41:14 PM
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Does anyone have any suggestions on a good book that has the chords for the different tunings. I know Mark Nelson has some chords on the taropatch. I do have a book on alternate tunings but it is not complete with the various Hawaiian tunings.
If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it.
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Judy |
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Hookani
Lokahi
232 Posts |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 1:38:21 PM
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I don't know what book you are refering too, is it a slack key book, or something more general? Some slack key teachers teach what they call "open and closed positions." Some call it the slack key scale. These scale positions, coupled with the correct bass notes, constitute the major chords in a variety of locations as they go up the neck. Playing this way, you can imply the chords with as few as 2 fingers. You have to use the correct open string bass notes. If your book shows these positions, look to see if bass notes are specified. Ozzie's book shows the open & closed positions, and tells what chord is implied by them. He doesn't give the bass notes on that page, but as you get familiar with the positions up & down the neck, you notice certain bass notes are commonly used at certain positions.The bass notes complete the chord implied by the 2 treble notes. As your ears get more familiar with chords, you'll begin hearing the chords change as you play these up & down the neck.
There will be times when open & closed positions move up or down without changing bass notes. In other words, the melody notes ascend or descend while the same alternating bass notes are played throughout the section of the song. This, so far as my limited experience has gone, mostly occurs over the V chord. In the key of G, that would be the D or D7 chord. Ray Kane used a descending run of this type over D in several songs. One is Ulupalakua. If you search YouTube for a video of Kahuku Slack Key, you can see& hear this, if the neck and left hand are visible. Kahuku Slack Key was written by TP member Patrick Landeza, a student of Ray Kane. The point here, is that the D chord is implied by the bass notes, even as the melody is descending the whole scale.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 2:25:42 PM
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Hi there. Mark Nelson here....
Although there are a few books out there with chord shapes for alternate tunings, by and large they are not the voicings used by slack key players. They tend to be aimed either at the new acoustic crowd, or the Celt-heads. (DADGAD anyone?)
The charts I did were for my students to show typical chord choices, the more advanced chords are mostly to demonstrate that you can play anything, in any tuning.
However, if you are just getting started, I'd suggest sticking to one tuning --- Taropatch is a good start --- and learning the ins and outs of the style a bit. Tackle the songs in Ozzie's book; then branch out into some of the other stuff that's available.
You will find that few players use chords extensively. As Paul says, it's more a factor of playing harmonized melody lines with the bass notes suggesting the chord changes.
Happy playing!
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1491 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 2:49:06 PM
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| Mark Hanson has two very comprehensive books with chord diagrams for a wide variety of Alternate Tunings including most of the common Slack Key Tunings. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1491 Posts |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 3:40:30 PM
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quote:
I have both books and they are a very valuable resource.
CAPT Mike
Agreed!
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Bijou
Akahai
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 05:58:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark
Hi there. Mark Nelson here....
Although there are a few books out there with chord shapes for alternate tunings, by and large they are not the voicings used by slack key players. They tend to be aimed either at the new acoustic crowd, or the Celt-heads. (DADGAD anyone?)
The charts I did were for my students to show typical chord choices, the more advanced chords are mostly to demonstrate that you can play anything, in any tuning.
However, if you are just getting started, I'd suggest sticking to one tuning --- Taropatch is a good start --- and learning the ins and outs of the style a bit. Tackle the songs in Ozzie's book; then branch out into some of the other stuff that's available.
You will find that few players use chords extensively. As Paul says, it's more a factor of playing harmonized melody lines with the bass notes suggesting the chord changes.
Happy playing!
What I am looking for is say you have book like He Aloha with multiple songs that have the chords written over the words. If I dont know the chord shapes I cannot play the song. I can learn to play the songs in standard tuning but it sounds so much sweeter in one of the Hawaiian tunings. I do have some of Ozzies songs , Ron Loo and "Learning Slack Key Guitar." All very helpful. Plus 3 songs from your class at Dusty Strings in Double Slack Punhele, Malasadas and Aunty Alices. Which I am now playing and getting more proficient.
Thank you for the reply
Judy |
Judy |
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Bijou
Akahai
USA
51 Posts |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 07:46:57 AM
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quote:
What I am looking for is say you have book like He Aloha with multiple songs that have the chords written over the words. If I dont know the chord shapes I cannot play the song. I can learn to play the songs in standard tuning but it sounds so much sweeter in one of the Hawaiian tunings.
From your questions, I'd assumed you were just getting started, hence my advice to forego chords for a while until you got the hang of slack key. Had you mentioned that you wanted to back up songs from "the Costco Book" (as they call it in Hawaii), I would have given you different advice. Sorry, my bad.
To play an F7 chord in F wahine, just play your basic F chord (1-0-2 on the first three strings) and add a note on the second string, third fret: 1-3-2. There are several other ways to reach that chord.
The G7 is a little harder-- you have to barre everything at the second fret, then build the F7 chord shape on top of the barre: 3-5-3-2-2-2. But many slack key players would simply play a C7-F turnaround there.
BTW: I am slowly working on a second volume to "Oldtime Hawaiian Slack Key" that will have lots and lots of chord charts.
Good luck!
Typo corrected-- thanks Al!
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Edited by - Mark on 05/07/2009 1:11:01 PM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 11:17:22 AM
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Mark I think you meant to write: 3-5-4-2-2-2 for the G7. I believe Bijou is asking about the basic chords in a particular key that would facilitate sing alongs in that given tuning. Just to say that I IV V7 may be helpful but we know that fingering varies for each chord in different tunings since the intervals move around. It would be helpful if one were to chart the chords for , say F Wahine for the I IV V7 II and relative minor chords related to that tuning as an example. Then one might sing many songs in the key of F. Just my two cents into what I believe was the jist of Bijouʻs question.
Iʻll look for your book when it is done. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 05/07/2009 11:19:01 AM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 1:36:43 PM
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quote:
It would be helpful if one were to chart the chords for , say F Wahine for the I IV V7 II and relative minor chords related to that tuning as an example.
That's a good idea. I'll take Noeau's advice and refine the charts for the next book.
BTW: I just went back and looked at the chord chart I posted for F wahine. It does have A F7th chord (this was a question that Bijiou asked me about off the forum) as well as a few other oddities: Why is there both an Abmaj13 and a Gb maj13 you ask???
Been awhile since I made the charts, but I think those two oddball chords relate to a couple of arrangements of mine that were going around at the time.
One thing: In any tuning, you can make any chord a movable chord just by adding a barre.
So, to play a I-VI-II-V in F wahine, the chords are F-D7-G7-C7.
Take the chord chart and find an F-- that's the first chord.
D7 is a whole step (two frets) higher than C7, so make a barre at the second fret and construct and build a C7 on top: 2-2-5-2-2-2
A G7 is a whole step (two frets) higher than an F7-- so do the same thing; barre at the second fret and stick the F7 shape on top of it. 3-4-5-2-2-2.
OK, so what about a I-VI-II-V in Taropatch? Hint: G is I & D7 is V. Howabout in Drop C or C wahine?? Everything you need is in the charts here on TP.
I'd suggest learning things this way, as it is a good way to really understand what's going on.
Or you can just use one of the books, tuning aplets, or some fancy software to avoid figuring it out for yerself... Which I certainly have done on occasion. 
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Edited by - Mark on 05/07/2009 1:37:55 PM |
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vscotth
Aloha
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 8:42:40 PM
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Hi Judy,
I'm just finishing work on the second edition of a slack key chord manual, and I'd be glad to send you a copy when it's done.
It contains full-neck chord diagrams for 28 different chords in each of 15 tunings. The tunings represent a sample of open, wahine, Mauna Loa, Old Mauna Loa and a couple of other miscellaneous tunings. I also included a set of 10 basic first position chords for each tuning, as well as charts for the open and closed positions (parallel thirds and sixths).
This edition also added some background notes on each the tunings, as well as sections on basic music theory: scales, intervals and chord structure. There's also a section on other reference sources: instruction books, DVDs, web sites, etc.
I should have the first review copies available in about a week.
Cheers,
Scott |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 07:31:07 AM
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Scott, what a terrific resource. I am sure every single guitar player on this site--or anywhere-- will want a copy.
Be sure to let us know the minute it is printed.
cheers,
Mark |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 09:09:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bijou
What I am looking for is say you have book like He Aloha with multiple songs that have the chords written over the words. If I dont know the chord shapes I cannot play the song.
Chord books and chord charts definitely help. But don't sell yourself short by saying that if you don't know the chord shapes you can't play the song. There are plenty of resources on the web that will tell you what notes make up a given chord, and the process of figuring out how to play that combination of notes in a given tuning will give you a much better understanding of what you're playing than simply memorizing the shapes.
As a quick example of what I'm talking about, a C chord consists of the notes C-E-G. If you're in taro patch tuning then you know that the open 3rd and 5th strings are G so that note's already taken care of. The 2nd string is a B open, so the first fret makes it a C. That leaves the E, which you can get by fretting the 1st, 4th, and/or 6th strings (all D's) on the second fret. So you end up with 202012. Since this is awkward to play you can drop the D on the 6th string and go with X02012. (Technically this is a C/G since the G is the bass note, but it's still a C chord.)
Drawing a picture of your fretboard and labeling all the notes will make it easier to pick out the ones you need for each chord...the trick is finding the combination of notes, or chord voicing, that has all the required notes close enough together to make it easy to fret. If you're playing something melodic then you may also want a voicing that places the melody notes on the first three strings. Understanding how the chords are constructed makes it easy to do that. The same thing holds true if you want to add a bass line.
Is this more difficult to do for a given tuning than finding a chord chart on the web or in a book that someone else has already put togther? Sure, but you only have to do it once for each chord to come up with your own chord chart (you can find blank chord charts to fill in on the web) for each tuning and once you do you'll end up having learned something along the way (about the tuning, your guitar's fretboard, and even music theory) that will probably have a positive effect on other aspects of your playing down the line! |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 05/08/2009 09:10:08 AM |
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Earl
`Olu`olu
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 12:35:27 PM
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This is a chord finder applet that you can download. It is for standard ukulele tuning, but if you are doing slack tuning (G-C-E-G) you would only have to change by two frets on the 1st (bottom) string.
http://www.sheep-entertainment.nl/ukulele/index.html
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