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PaokanoMike
Aloha
USA
18 Posts |
 Posted - 04/06/2010 : 8:39:28 PM
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I keep finding that I almost have to re-learn each song after I get it to sound like music to get the bass line rythm. I havin haard time. Any and all suggestions would be welcomed.
Mahalos
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+Praise the Son+ |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2010 : 10:16:16 PM
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Bradda.
Mo betta you go learn da bass patterns firzt befoa you go try learn da melody. Coz da bass sets up da riddim anden da chord progressions.
Fo da most part dey ste pretty easy to do because they are predictable 'specially wid da songs dat ste all verse kine like "Pauoa Liko ka Lehua" oa "Salomila" anden.
We go call dat kine songs strophic all verses nomo chorus. Dey only get two lines in da verse -- couplets -- even Shakespeare when go usem. Alla da udda kine songs we go callem thru composed. Dey a little bit diffrent coz nomo alternation, but like anyting else you go practice anden you goin gedem. Almos like math da mo you doem da betta you get. No kiddin!
Az fo bass patterns only get two kinds: alternating kine (coz da tumb gotto go back and fort) anden pedal note kine (you playem little bit, like one time per measure). Da alternating bass you get diffrent flavors too. Get straight alternating kine, Alberti (like carnival music kind), get Latino kine, and get wonnada latin kine called habanera. Anden get da reel old Hawaiian kind bassed on da ipu riddim -- we callem `olapa bass.
Fo da bass patterns go to my down load page http://www.slackkeybypetermed.com/Downloads.html. Goin be unda bass patterns. Go try lisen anden you goin recognize da patterns in alla da slack key songs. You gedem?
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Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 04/08/2010 09:22:52 AM |
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PaokanoMike
Aloha
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 6:38:11 PM
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Braddah uren ansa alla questions I get, you get da tery an you get choke skills wit teachin. Iruzrundering, fo one greenhorn how long you figa goin take fo makeum soun aright? You know cuz I no li make-A wen my Moddah dem ax me fo play. An den I ben watchin youtubes caz da kine ililearn somoah songs eh? . So you sayin even if I fumbling aroun an my song soun junk jes keep goin an lata on I goin catch on. Das right eh?
An tank you fo xplainin alla differnt kine bass styos dis goin help me fo unnastan aryting about da Kiho Alu kine styo.
Kayden tanx eh, By da way nex time I go stay come my Moddah dems maybe we can stay go come stay go stay come Moms dem fo one small kine Kanikapila be awright, den go come stay,den nex time I go stay go come stay go come den stay go....K?
Ina meantimes I goin praktise plenty.
Hea, as my emayo adress lidat jes in case you go need um You go U.H. right? I goin show you my daghters dey jes wen grduate fren dea..
Go emayo me anden
sanclementemike @ yahoo.com |
+Praise the Son+ |
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PaokanoMike
Aloha
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2010 : 7:11:53 PM
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| Ho Bull garans i goin buy dat book |
+Praise the Son+ |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 07:17:30 AM
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| Hooo brah! Wea you been gro op li'dat. As won gud ting you make frens with bruddah Peter he one slack master da guy. As why he won teechah so he no need work hahd labah. Have fun lerning dis kine it only gets bettah wit practice. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 10:12:11 AM
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E Paokano,
So you won greenhorn, no wery brah. We all gotto start sometime. So, mite az well be now. Jez rememba diz az we begin da journey, dat at dis point in time you know I know you know I know that you don't know what you don't know. Yeah? But den, bumbai da lite goin go on insai yo hed. Anden you not goin be NTB (not too bright) anymo.
Itz gonna be like "Oh! Now I gedem." So, aldough it maybe hard now, itz gonna come mo eazy bumbai - jez like dancing. Da mo you doem, da betta you get. Unless you ste like Kate Gosselin. Den brudah you no get chance.
It may be hard yeah, at dis point to unnastand jez how important a role da tumb on the picking hand has in determining da diffrence between a song sounding just so so or sounding great. Slack key get won strong relationship wid hula. So az why we go start wid da tumb playing da bass line. Itz so you can dance.
Every beat is won hula step -- ka`o, hela, kaholo, `uwehe, etc., you namem gotto fall on da beat. Da dancers, da firzt ting dey lern iz da steps, anden dey gotto doem to da ipu. Da riddim iz set by da ipu anda step haz gotto reflect da riddm. Dey doem ova and ova and ova until the muscle memory iz pa`a (solid). If dey no go doem right, da kumu goin eatem fo lunch wid poi and opihi. Nah, nah, nah, nah. Jez jokin.
But da bass part iz won important part of what makes da music sound Hawaiian. It reflects da dance relationship. Itz reel easy to learn, jez go put on won old slack key recording of hula music anden go play da bass part only. Only goin get two notes. Reel hard to gedem wrong.
As da steps reflect the riddim of da story (itz' pace), the eye, hip, and hand gestures tell da story. Same ting wid slack key. In slack key, da tumb plays the bass jez go ax Ray Kane. Anden da melody played by da fingas tells da story. Da riddim has got to be solid, so even if you miss a note you still goin feel da riddim. If you get da hula riddim you get chance.
Call me back in tree weeks (yeah Kory)
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Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 04/09/2010 10:20:46 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 10:53:46 AM
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I tink da kumu hula will eat you fo lunch. Good ting dey nomo rulahz like da nuns in catlick skoo.
Petah - good ting you one kumu becuz you stay very good at it. You could werk for HECO because you help da lite bulb come on. My uwehe takes lotsa beats -- da knees stay rusty. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2183 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 5:18:22 PM
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| Eh, Peter, right again! Da guy who wen teach me ki ho'alu wen show me da tumb anden said, "K'den, t'ree weeks foa practice, 20 minutes a day." Whenevah I wen spok him, da buggah wen tell me, "Not t'ree weeks yet." Was ony afta t'ree weeks dat he let me jam wit him. He wen tell, "If you no get da tumb, not slack key. Anybody can play da leads, no need tune slack but NOT ki ho'alu. Da tumb come firs', den da tune." Slipry1 tells banjo students to practice da right hand while watching TV. Build muscle memory. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 6:19:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Medeiros
Every beat is won hula step -- ka`o, hela, kaholo, `uwehe, etc., you namem gotto fall on da beat. Da dancers, da firzt ting dey lern iz da steps, anden dey gotto doem to da ipu. Da riddim iz set by da ipu anda step haz gotto reflect da riddm. Dey doem ova and ova and ova until the muscle memory iz pa`a (solid). If dey no go doem right, da kumu goin eatem fo lunch wid poi and opihi. Nah, nah, nah, nah. Jez jokin.
Maybe that's why I was drawn to playing bass guitar for Hawaiian music, after a few years of `ukulele ... because I started out as hula haumana.
I may not be that great a bass player yet, but I think the hula training first is what gave me the sense of rhythm for what I play; I hear the ipu in my head, I feel a sway in my hips.
And as a mutual friend of Kory/Jack/Al/mine told me shortly before I played bass in public for the first time (after six months of practice with our halau) - always play a note at the right time; it may not always be the RIGHT note, but it needs to be at the right time.
I don't play guitar, but it sounds like the same lesson applies, as both you and Kory have noted. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2010 : 8:04:40 PM
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Ya just can't let the dancers get stuck with one foot in the air, and you don't play a note for them to put the foot back down. Somebody falls down, the Kumu WILL eat you with poi & opihi!Besides, I tried that fall downing stuff. I don't like it, not at all!
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2010 : 07:32:56 AM
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Thank you so much for all this wonderful insight. I have one silly procedural question that I cannot seem to figure out. I am working through Peter's book and want to listen to the examples on the Downloads page of his website. I can listen to them fine online but cannot seem to download them to my computer so I can listen to them when away from an internet connection. Should I be able to do this or are they only intended for online use? If I should be able to, can anyone clue me in? They show up as quick time movies, not MP3 and won't download.
thanks
Dave |
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PaokanoMike
Aloha
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2010 : 5:59:29 PM
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Tanks eh fo all da good kine help wit da tum question, I been stay trin mo haad fo get da bass line, My Moddah dem teach hula lidat so I gettin da tery why dey like da riddum stay same eh. Now I givin um at leas 15 o 20 min ary day lidat so garans I goin make dis one prioritys den she soun arite. Tanks eh all who wen pos I get one nadda question I goin ax. Maybe I start naddah page den....
Peace +
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+Praise the Son+ |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 04:15:07 AM
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I’ve heard this advice a few times, learning the thumb part separately, but I don’t think it’s the answer in my case.
Certainly for me, practising the thumb separately is no help at all. I can do the thumb OK, and I can do melodies OK. I’m reasonably OK with anything that’s one note at a time.
What I find very difficult is doing more than one thing at once. Two notes at the one time, a bass and a melody note, well that’s (still) not terribly easy for me. There’s something about my brain that can handle doing one note at a time even fairly quickly, but when it comes to something like using a thumb and ring finger at the same moment, it says ‘what the hell is this?’
Any thing that I learn, that involves finger stuff, I have to learn ‘vertically’, chopping the music up into small bits that incorporate all the parts. And it doesn’t particularly sound like music when it’s going at a snail’s pace, but if you get it right when going slowly, eventually when it gets up to normal speed, it should a bit more like it.
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1583 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 09:42:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Trev
I’ve heard this advice a few times, learning the thumb part separately, but I don’t think it’s the answer in my case.
Certainly for me, practising the thumb separately is no help at all. I can do the thumb OK, and I can do melodies OK. I’m reasonably OK with anything that’s one note at a time.
What I find very difficult is doing more than one thing at once. Two notes at the one time, a bass and a melody note, well that’s (still) not terribly easy for me. There’s something about my brain that can handle doing one note at a time even fairly quickly, but when it comes to something like using a thumb and ring finger at the same moment, it says ‘what the hell is this?’
Any thing that I learn, that involves finger stuff, I have to learn ‘vertically’, chopping the music up into small bits that incorporate all the parts. And it doesn’t particularly sound like music when it’s going at a snail’s pace, but if you get it right when going slowly, eventually when it gets up to normal speed, it should a bit more like it.
Trev, I absolutely agree that in the beginning, or when learning a tough new concept, your idea of "vertical sections" is a key method. This is how I learned "Kani Ki Ho`alu" and the rest of Ozzie's book. But I think I had my thumb doing an independent straight 4/4 accompaniment not too long after that. I was so entranced by the sound of a simple vamp that I grabbed a guitar and played vamps every chance I got.
Here's an idea to bridge the learning between vertical sections and independence. With a steady thumb, there are only a few "places" in time that we can play a treble note - none, on the thumb, between the thumbs, just before the thumb, or just after the thumb. So play a vamp with just the thumb, no melody notes at all. When your thumb is working you can hear and feel the vamp without using your fretting hand at all. Then play one melody note per measure, on the first thumb of the measure. On the second. Third. Fourth. Now two per measure. Etc. Now one in between the first and second thumb. Etc. Expand the variations in small steps. It's quite liberating once thumb independence kicks in, and it will after a while.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key on YouTube
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1583 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 09:58:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by salmonella
Thank you so much for all this wonderful insight. I have one silly procedural question that I cannot seem to figure out. I am working through Peter's book and want to listen to the examples on the Downloads page of his website. I can listen to them fine online but cannot seem to download them to my computer so I can listen to them when away from an internet connection. Should I be able to do this or are they only intended for online use? If I should be able to, can anyone clue me in? They show up as quick time movies, not MP3 and won't download.
thanks
Dave
You (and I) have been "Quicktimed." Our friends at Apple have hooked their app into our browser at our request but they decided that we should have to buy the pro version of QT in order to download a file (right click on the player to see the download option grayed out). If I ever figure out how to manage QT in Firefox I'll feel like a superhero.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key on YouTube
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 10:08:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fran Guidry
[br
You (and I) have been "Quicktimed." Our friends at Apple have hooked their app into our browser at our request but they decided that we should have to buy the pro version of QT in order to download a file (right click on the player to see the download option grayed out). If I ever figure out how to manage QT in Firefox I'll feel like a superhero.
Fran
Thank you so much Fran. I thought I was the only one that could not get it so easily. I finally gave up and found another computer that has not been "quicktimed" (although until you posted this I did not know why the other computer worked). Nice ploy by Apple.....hook em then real them in to the pro version... for a fee.
Dave |
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Using the thumb
