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Iakonu
Akahai
USA
57 Posts |
 Posted - 05/05/2010 : 1:17:40 PM
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I concur that if you are going to make a significant investment in an instrument you owe it to yourself to look into getting a handmade guitar. Taylor and Martin make fine instruments, but like BMW, they are on every street corner. You can get way better quality, custom fitting and a guitar "built" for finger picking and lower tuning by getting one from a lutheir who builds guitars with slack key players in mind. Not to mention you are helping support the small business owner by shopping small and local.
Check out Dennis Lake's Po Mahina guitars at http://www.konaweb.com/mahina/ and give him a call to discuss if you are interested in what you see. As others have said before Dennis makes some of the finest guitars and ukes around. Having played one of his Californios guitars at his workshop last week I fully can attest to the quality, resonance and beauty of his custom built instruments.
Aloha. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1581 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 06:36:40 AM
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Please allow me to disagree in the most gentle and respectful way.
quote:
Taylor and Martin make fine instruments, but like BMW, they are on every street corner. You can get way better quality, custom fitting and a guitar "built" for finger picking and lower tuning by getting one from a lutheir who builds guitars with slack key players in mind.
I have pretty significant experience in the area of handmade and factory made guitars. While it is true that a custom luthier can add details that would be hard to find on a factory guitar, I challenge you to find a guitar built with better quality than a Martin from the Vintage series and up. I own a number of extremely fine handmades, and my Martin OM-18GE is the equal of any of them in every way. This past weekend I attended an acoustic guitar showcase and among the Kevin Ryans and other handmades, a simple Martin OM LJ Pro was the standout instrument of the night.
I would also point out that I know many players who have been, shall we say, underwhelmed by their custom luthier-built instruments. I personally have tried a number of handmades that left me unimpressed by their workmanship, playability, and/or sound qualities.
Finally, the ability to walk into a store and try an instrument before purchase is not something to dismiss lightly.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key on YouTube
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 10:43:22 AM
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| I LOVE my Martins:D-18 and 000-28! As I mentioned in another post, Led Kaapana is playing his (rebuilt) 000-18 exclusively as his acoustic guitar at his gigs at the Kona Brewery. Fran is right, tho. When looking for a guitar, it is best to play as many as possible. When I got my grandson a Baby Taylor when he was 8, I must have tried 25 of them at McCabe's in Santa Monica, CA, whittling the count down, until I chose the one I believed had the fullest tone. Guitars DO vary in sound, even handmade ones. |
keaka |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 4:57:00 PM
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I understand Martin's reputation for quality, and the list of Martin players is very extensive, including a large number of people who can afford any guitar available. Something must be right when a company last's 77 years, and is still in the same family that started it. But playing before you buy is one of life's great pleasures. Why deny yourself? Buying by pedigree isn't the same. And frankly, the Martin's I tried were unfriendly to my hands. Something about the neck shape was just not right. My kids grew up hearing me talk of owning a Martin some day. Well, when the money became available, I didn't like the feel of them. Maybe a custom shop model could have been built with a different neck shape,but THAT kind of money was not available. And I'm not convinced the difference in sound would have been worth the difference in price from what I did buy. Listening to recordings, I don't think I've heard anything that sounds better than Keola Beamer's Grimes steel string. But $6000 buys a couple of very nice Martins, Taylor's, or (insert make you wish to bad mouth here.) Or one very nice guitar, and a trip to Hawai`i for you & your spouce. I don't know how much of that beautiful sound I hear on his recordings will come out in my living room, with a different mic, a different recording deck, a different set of room acoustics, and MY HANDS on the strings! Grimes himself might tell me to "Step AWAY from the guitar, and nobody gets hurt!" What happens if the custom shop guitar you waited 1-2 years for doesn't feel right? As I understand, some small custom builders have a long backlog of orders. I know of one banjo shop that isn't even taking orders, his backlog is about 2 years right now.
Ya gotta pleas your ears first, and your hands second. The budget will dictate just how much you please your ears & hands, and how soon. Take anything the rest of us say on here with a grain of salt.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 05/06/2010 4:58:54 PM |
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PaokanoMike
Aloha
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 7:45:54 PM
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All I can say is WOW thanks for all the responses I have my work cut out, I have to say I love the Koa cutaway pix that was posted my only question is does it sound as good as it looks? I have heard that the older guitars sound better is that true? Still learning aswhyhaad, neva mine!
Coming up on 1 yea playin slack, fully hooked Hana paa!!
Mahalo to all you,
Michael + |
+Praise the Son+ |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 1:29:16 PM
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Mike,
Although I have not yet played the limited edition 12-fret Taylor cutaway pictured . . I have played the R. Taylor Style 2 and it is awesome. Also way above my meagre means.
I have played Keith Marzullo's Po Mahina and a few Goodall guitars and they have all been outstanding guitars as well. Three things I look for.
Does it feel comfortable to play when I play it?
Does it sound the way I expect it to when a good guitarist plays it for me?
Is it something I truly want to keep, look at, and enjoy playing? |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 02:39:25 AM
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For off the shelf $3K guitars I am on the Martin bandwagon. They are light and responsive. I have a OMC18-Ljv(L.Juber model)that sings.
Under $2K I would look at the $1500 Breedlove and some Taylors.
For $1200 to $1000 I would consider a Martin D16.
For less than that I would go with Martin again even thought they are not solid wood from there on, they still sound very good.
If price was not an issue I would choose Mcpherson or Goodall, or buy a custom guitar. |
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 05/11/2010 02:40:26 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 05:28:34 AM
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| One high priced guitar = coupo trips to O`ahu |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Volcano
Akahai
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 06:10:44 AM
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You can get a Goodall for around 3K. While I like Martin guitars quite a bit, there's a certain "mojo" in a guitar made by one person or in a very small shop where everything is still hands on. Taylor invented robotics in the guitar world and Martin followed suit. While it creates a more consistent instrument, for me, something is lost when a maker's vision is turned over to robots.
There are very decent guitars coming out of China now that can give Taylor a run for their money and sell for $200.00 to $400.00. Some of these are very surprising instruments. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 06:24:18 AM
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Just curious, Volcano...
Depending on which inexpensive guitar you pick up, some can be quite acceptable if you only have $500 or so.
What brands of chinese guitars do you think are good?
On robotics: gotta say that sometimes a robot does a way better job than a human can. If the woods are good a skilled person is selecting components, also if human intervention is in the final stages, I think a very good instrument can be made. |
Bob |
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Volcano
Akahai
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 07:39:33 AM
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Check out the new Great Divide guitars. They are extremely impressive for the money. The company has incredible monetary resources and are really striving to supply the best guitars possible in their price range.
I've been doing the qulaity control and initial set ups for the KSD (Ken Smith Design) basses for about two years now. These are electric basses based on Ken Smith's designs an imported from China. Every quality issue I've had has been immediately addressed by the Chinese factory to the point where I would rather have one of their basses now than a Fender whose quality control has been drastically slipping lately. Look or Chinese Burners very soon. They are pretty amazing and under $1K.
As far as robotics and fine acoustic guitars, what I said was that you get a very consistent instrument but there is an undefinable "mojo" missing when human contact by a skilled luthier is missing. This is something I am extremely knowledgeable about. Quality tonewoods are not hard to get as long as you are talking about rosewood, maple and spruce. South American mahogany is now pretty scarce which is why Taylor and Martin started using sapele in less expensive guitars. The wood looks a little like mahogany but is nothing like it tonally and is not related to mahogany in any way. An individual luthier or a small shop for that matter will tap and flex tonewoods and build accordingly. When you are producing 100K guitars plus a year, this becomes impossible. I'm very familiar with both the Martin and Taylor factories and know first hand how their guitars are built. Martin is capable of building a superior guitar but generally not on their production line. The really great guitars you can get from Martin now can easily cost you ten to twenty thousand dollars. Spend this much with Martin and you will get a guitar which is hard to beat. I do think that you can equal a guitar of this quality by spending three to five thousand at many small shops.
My experience and opinions come after a lifetime of being involved with guitars both in and out of the industry. I have had the luxury of comparing many, many guitars side by side in consistent circumstances. I have been able to compare same models and makes with vastly different tonewoods. I do have a list of criteria for a great guitar but as I said, the "mojo" is really undefinable and avaiable of a "robotic" instrument. |
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Volcano
Akahai
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 07:42:17 AM
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| Ooops. I meant the last line to read, "Not available on a "robotic" guitar. |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 10:58:29 AM
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Slack Key Mom has been playing at our weekly Slack Key open Mike the last few weeks. Chunky Monkey, Dusty, and I have all commented on how nice her Goodall sounds. Of course, Kendyl gets better every time I hear her play that guitar. Everyone else plays Taylors. We love those Taylors but her Goodall is very nice. I think Chunky would say it makes him long for the Goodall he once had.
I have also heard Dr Marzullo play his PoMahina guitars and they have a special sound and feel as well.
I know from personal experience though -- on the same guitar each week at slack key open mike, sometimes it sounds terrific and sometimes I suck or feel uninspired. I blame the room acoustics, the lack of patrons, the mixer/amp, the guitar cable, or even the batteries in the pickup. I think we all KNOW (in our hearts) where the difference lies -- somewhere between our heart, brain, and our fingers. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1581 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 06:14:03 AM
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Mr. Volcano, I know you're in the business, and I appreciate hearing your opinions, but this past weekend we had our biannual guitar party here at my house. We had instruments by some of the top hand makers in the country, folks like Mainguard and Walker, Schoenberg and Wingert. And we had Martins and Taylors.
Based on my experience, it doesn't take ten to twenty thousand to buy a Martin that can hold its own with these handmades. And my friends who build handmade guitars agree with me.
And mojo shows up in the darndest places, seemingly without regard to price tag. It's entirely possible to spend $10K for handmade mojo and wind up with a very pretty brick with strings. It's entirely possible to spend $450 on a used Chinese Epiphone and find yourself with a guitar that delights Ledward Kaapana.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key on YouTube
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 07:06:14 AM
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Exactly why you gotta play as many as are in your price range. The "most wonderful guitar(ukulele, piano,etc)ever" is all in the reactions of the player. The instrument has to express your innermost feelings. You would not ask someone what was the best color of carpet for your home. A consensus of guitar preferences is almost impossible. We all have our own reasons for what we like in an instrument. Several years ago, Acoustic Guitar Magazine had a photo of a Gibson acoustic that had been sold by an auction house for the sum of approx $11,000. This guitars claim to fame was that it had been owned by Pete Townshend of The Who. The purchaser considered that reason enough for the price , and I guess they got what they wanted in a guitar, it must have expressed their desires in a guitar. Frankly, from the picture I don't think there was enough hide glue in Cleveland to make it playable ever again. It was Pete' Townshends guitar, after all.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Guitar question ?
