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bluespiderweb
Akahai
USA
91 Posts |
 Posted - 10/10/2003 : 10:50:35 PM
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Aloha All,
I am a guitar player by fate, or circumstance, or luck, I love slack key, but I enjoy many other instruments for their unique sounds and the different music in which they are found; the acoustic lap steel/dobro/slide guitar, oud(kin to the lute), violin/viola/cello, scottish bagpipes, and mandolin. Among some others, but these are my favorites.
I was wondering how much the mandolin was used in Hawaiian music, and if someone knew of some CDs with some mandolin instrumentals or as one of the primary instruments?
So far, I haven't heard any that I remember. Mahalo for your help!
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Koaniani,
Ola, Barry
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2003 : 11:52:48 PM
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I guess the short anwswer is:
Why play a mandolin when you can play an ukelele?
Having owned and recorded both mandolins and ukelele's it is easy to see the the range and tone are very similar. These days steel strings are fairly popular on mandolins but there are also plenty gut-string versions that sound more like ukes. Dual-string courses are also very popular on mandolins but are also available and very popular on ukes. I have not seen too many steel string ukes, but they do exist. With the right playing style you can make either instrument sound pretty much like the other (and with the right choice of string type), so why not use the uke since it has more of the Hawaiian Mana? After all, any mandolyn (my spelling) player should be able to pick up and play an Uke in no time.
As far as I am personally concerned you can pretty much play any instrument in any style. (Imagine a Harp playing the intro to "Thus sprach Zarthrustra")  OK... OK.... there are limits! 
So, like many answers in the World of Music, much is determined by tradition. We (more or less Westerners) are still using the 8/12 tone scale and the popular chord progressions are also many hundreds of years old, etc, etc. So if you are playing a traditional music form (like Hawaiian) it is most comfortable to play on the (local) traditional instruments.
I.M.H.O.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 10/11/2003 12:05:00 AM |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1573 Posts |
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duke
Lokahi
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 1:09:10 PM
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And then there was Peter Moon's tiple playing on those early Sunday Manoa records. Liked that.
Duke |
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Kahalenahele
Lokahi
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 1:23:19 PM
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I'm currently preoccupied with instruments made by Chris J. Knutsen - he was an instrument designer and builder with a very unique vision. You all may be familiar with his harp guitars, whose design was licensed to Dyer, or his Hawaiian guitar design, which was picked up by a certain Mr. Weissenborn.
Anyway, Mr. Knutsen made mandolins and ukuleles as well as guitars (and harp zither guitars, among other instruments). If I do this right, here are some historical pictures of some Hawaiian groups featuring his mandolins:
Here's Awai's Royal Hawaiians, who performed at the San Francisco Panama-Pacific International Exposition in 1915:
Rumor has it (from the Noe/Most book "From Harp Guitars to the New Hawaiian Family: Chris J. Knutsen: History and Development of the Hawaiian Steel Guitar") that Hawaiian musicians who bought his mandolins at the Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exhibition in Seatle in 1909 converted them to tenor taropatches. However, other Knutsen experts doubt this.
Mahalo to Gregg Miner, from whose incredible Knutsen website I liberated this photograph as well as some of the information (that I didn't lift from George Moe and Dan Most).
http://home.earthlink.net/~chrisknutsen/
I heartily recommend going to Gregg's Knutsen website (above) and checking out the sound samples, especially the zither harp guitar:
http://home.earthlink.net/~chrisknutsen2/hgs40.htm
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Kahalenahele
Lokahi
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 1:27:26 PM
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| Oops, I forgot to add that the Cheap Suit Serenaders often feature mandolin in their songs; however, their take on old Hawaiian songs may not be what you're after at all. |
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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 4:22:17 PM
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I have a dear friend (wonderful ukulele and autoharp player) who I showed my Martin style A mandolin to, and she said "bet I can play that". She then went on to talk about her uncle who would use this as part of their backyard kanikapila probably in the '40s. I think that most people who have a love for stringed instruments are curious about learning whatever is available.
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2003 : 5:15:50 PM
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I want to support you folk who are playing instruments other than guitar and uke. Bring them into playing and see how the sound. That's one of the ways for the whole slavk key movement to stay alive and vital. My only bit of advice is listen a lot to Hawaiian music in general and slack key -- let the feel of it get under your skin. Learn how to play it in a traditional style. Maybe learn a few more contemporary styles - then bring in non-traditional instruments in a way that complements or is developing in a way which is consistent with the tradition.
No need to use just uke and guitar. Rainbow has many colors.
Raymond
San Jose |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2003 : 12:45:44 AM
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Some of the slower traditional songs sound great on a banjo! (A sitar, too.)
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2003 : 06:42:19 AM
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Mentioning banjos, boy this thread is going to take a twisty turn. Oh well, other than slack key my I love 5 string Scruggs style bluegrass banjo picking. Actually I see such a kinship with much traditional Hawaiian music and bluegrass. They both can evoke a similar feeling and have both perked and brewed in relative seclusion. More than a few locals are attracted to good country! Banjo is usually picked pretty hard, and the music is often driving. Guitar is usually the fundamental rhythm, flatpicked on the downbeat, with solos shared with fiddle, banjo, guitar, dobro, mando ....
Here's an example I recently found of a gifted 14 or 15 year old girl who's gifted for her age. See if you notice a similarity with driving ukulele rhythm and kanikapila possibility. This certainly would be unusual, but lots of fun.
http://www.haleyandtheboys.com/media_clips/haleys_videos_01.html
I certainly don't want to minimize the differences of these two artforms, because there many. Good traditional Hawaiian ultimately has hula roots, and expresses a love of heritage, the land, and often people. Bluegrass tends to be more emotionally open. Hawaiians are so passionate, but less inclined to tip their hand .... kaona. But, they both reach deep, and have strong spirituality integrated within the structure.
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bluespiderweb
Akahai
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2003 : 7:35:33 PM
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I just listened to Fran's suggested John Almeida's (Kiss Me Love) on the mandolin, and IT DID SOUND FUNNY. It sounds out of place. The melody is picked using a lot of tremolo-that is why it sounds strange. Although when it is strummed, it sounds similar to the ukelele, and blends.
I imagine you could pick it in a manner that would blend other than just strumming the rythm. I don't think it should replace the ukelele, either. I would like to hear it played along with a guitar in slack key, just the two instruments. I think it could sound good.
Now I have a reason to get a ukelele! Support tradition! |
Koaniani,
Ola, Barry
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2003 : 10:52:02 PM
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BTW, I've often read or heard that Peter Moon plays the tipple ....
What the heck is a tipple?
(I do have a feeling it involves more than just a bottle of hooch.)
Raymond
San Jose |
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Kahalenahele
Lokahi
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 01:19:34 AM
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Raymond, go have a look at one!
http://www.gryphonstrings.com/instpix/20925/20925.html
Mighty cool - 10 strings, grouped 2-3-3-2 and tuned in the uke fashion. Steel strings. An absolute bear to tune. In the close-up pics you can see which strings are octave strings.
There's also a good article on tiples in the first Ukulele Occasional. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 02:47:44 AM
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Mahalo, John, hitting that link now.
Raymond |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 02:55:35 AM
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Wow - worth the look.
(Now honestly, folks, what kind of site has you going off site for a "peep show" of a tipple. A prett cool one, if you ask me. My wife commented that she's not sure if this is more or less healthy than the usual porn stuff. I replied that at least she didn't have to worry about the competition.)
Now that I've seen the tipple, I am even more impressed by Peter Moon's playing. Hard enough to get those solos on 1 string. But I suppose he's overdubbing and playing the tipple more for rhythm and the uke or guitar for those blistering runs he does so well. - Does anybody know for sure if this is accurate? Or does he play those solos on the tipple?
Got to make some time to get up to Gryphon and try out that thing myself. Good that I have absolutely no money left to buy a new instrument.
Raymond
San Jose |
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duke
Lokahi
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 04:01:37 AM
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I've read that the instrument: the "Tiple", is pronounced "Tee-play"
Duke |
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