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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2004 : 8:14:36 PM
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I have a dobro, an acoustic guitar with a nut extender and an electric lap steel. I was wondering what most people thought was the most authentic Hawaiian sound. I know all have been used to produce the Hawaiian "sound" over the last 100 years, but I'm torn about which of the three--resonator, acoustic or electric--sounded best to TP locals. (I'm currently in love with the dobro)
Just interested in opinions...
Mahalo!
Jesse Tinsley
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 01:12:27 AM
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The question is... "authentic what?" The electric gives you that "Authentic Waikiki or Hawaii Calls sound". The tricone give you that "Authentic 30's Hotel Street sound" and the acoustic give you the "original Joseph Kekuku sound from the turn of the century". As an old zen master once told me: "Each is Best".
The Dobro gives you the authentic "Hi Lonesome sound" which is also really a great sound. I used to play with the Voggy Mountain Ramblers here on the Big Island. Probably still would get into bluegrass if I could find a durn banjo player!
Aloha,
-Konabob |
Konabob's Walkingbass - http://www.konawalkingbass.com
Taropatch Steel - http://www.konaweb.com/konabob/
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Konabob2+Walkingbass |
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Craig
Aloha
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 10:55:16 AM
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"Authentic" seems to be one of those words where what it means depends on who's saying it.
Here's a tune I did on the Dobro (recognize it?) and, if you were to ask me, I'd say it sounds "authentic":
http://members.cox.net/priorcraig/Personal/How%20Dya%20Do.mp3
I like your idea of converting an acoustic to lap style playing. Some people get the coolest sounds out of unusual set ups.
My suggestion: work up some repertoire for all 3 (the Dobro, the acoustic guitar, and the electric lap steel). |
Craig P. |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 5:48:14 PM
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Craig, that's a really nice job you did on that tune! You're right that it doesn't sound like a dobro. It sounds like you're using a "modern" tuning instead of the standard G tuning. That probably helps it sound less like a dobro. I'm curious, what was your recording setup?
Regarding the "authenticity" questions, I agree with the others that they're all good. If I had to choose a favorite it would be a National Tricone. They have a bell-like tone and sustain that to my ear sounds more "refined".
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Gary |
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Craig
Aloha
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 7:51:27 PM
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Hi, Gary:
That was a Dobro tuned to A6 (lo to hi: C# E F# A C# E) and is based on the Jerry Byrd version. I used a Shure SM-81 with the bass rolloff in "middle" position to record this guitar.
Here's a tricone, although it's not a National but a Chinese knock-off... I think you'll easily hear the difference (this isn't as nice as a National):
http://members.cox.net/priorcraig/Personal/12th%20Street%20Rag.mp3
This is tuned in A major (lo to hi: A C# E A C# E). I'm not happy with the sound of this tricone or the rhythm guitar part, so I'm guess I'm not happy with the whole recording.
Ah, well... live and learn! |
Craig P. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 12:04:40 PM
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Very nice stuff, Craig. Did your tuning give you most of the two-string harmonies in "How d'ya do" without slants? Your intonation is great.
I grew up listening to lap steel and pedal steel (played with other instruments) in Hawaiian music from the 50s and 60s, so that sounds more Hawaiian to me. But as you go back through the development of Hawaiian music, each guitar had it's own era.
The resonator sounds old-timey to my ears, so it conjures up images of the pre-WWI period in Hawaii. The tri-cone is less tinny than the dobro, so it sounds more contemporary to me.
I'm enjoying all the different styles.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 09:06:19 AM
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quote:
That was a Dobro tuned to A6 (lo to hi: C# E F# A C# E)
Craig, for the benefit of us newbies, what's your string gage for this and the A maj tunings?
cheers,
Mark |
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Craig
Aloha
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 09:42:15 AM
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Hi, Mark and Hapakid:
It's true that 6th tunings do a lot of the work for you. Less need for slants. And 6th tunings encourage big melodramatic chordal statements.
My theory regarding steel tunings involves "quadrant" tunings and "irregular" tunings, which I would gladly elaborate on if anyone's interested. (Believe me, you probably aren't that interested! I can drone on for hours!)
My string guages for A6 are really the same guages as for C6:
E = .014
C = .017
A = .021
G = .024W
E = .030W
C = .036W
I got these guages from John Ely's Steel Guitar String Guage Chart (http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/gauges.html).
These same strings can be tuned to other practical tunings (shown lo to hi):
C6 = C E G A C E
A6 = C# E F# A C# E
A7 = C# E G A C# E
A9 = C# E G A B E
I use a gizmo by Hipshot to change my tunings rapidly. It's called the Trilogy, and it's a very handy device! |
Craig P. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 09:50:34 AM
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| I'm chiming in a little late, but I really enjoyed the sound clips. |
Andy |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 11:04:23 AM
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| Craig, I'm impressed by your playing. You play both the Jerry Byrd and Sol Hoopii styles of Hawaiian guitar quite well. I'm curious how you learned. Were there any instructional materials you found especially useful? |
Gary |
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Craig
Aloha
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 11:57:32 AM
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Thanks, guys:
Aww... now you're making me blush! LOL!!
Gary, re instructional materials... not really. Bob Brozman has a tape out on playing Hawaiian tricone-style and I watched a little of that.
But I find the best method is to sit down with the recording and figure it all out. I've wanted to play in this style for the last 15 years and I just recently started recording myself.
If I can be philosophical for a minute: when you're young, you annoy yourself by trying to learn something. It's hard to stick with it. When you get older (I'm 52) you realize: I'm all I got. 10 thumbs and not too bright. So you stick with it because the only way to go is up.
You slog through it until you get something that sounds halfway decent, then you try to pretend: Hey, guys! Check this out! And I hardly even practiced!
It's all a sham. I work really hard at it and my product is barely listenable. But enough about me ...
Take care. |
Craig P. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 1:01:39 PM
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| If anyone's interested, I have copies of Jerry Byrd's "book" and video, along with material by Henry Allen that I'm looking to sell. (I'll eventually post in the classifieds section.) Email me directly if you're interested. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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bluespiderweb
Akahai
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 8:28:33 PM
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Aloha All,
And, Craig, you are WRONG!!! Your product is very listenable! I personally can't imagine playing ala Bob Brozman(the tricone tune)and hitting half the notes or having the tune recognizable at that speed. You might not be technically correct, but to the ear, it's great.
Personally, I like the dobro tune better, only because it's more my speed. It does sound like pedal or lap steel to me. I would love to hear a slow tune played on the tricone for a change, as they have a charming voice, and I think they would sound great in a slow, sweet Hawaiian tune. If you feel like it, please post one, I'd be happy to listen!
I've been reading about the newer Johnson tricones, and the latest ones are better than they had been for tone and quality. I understand they can be easily upgraded(newer ones might not need it with improved cones being used now)with National cones, and a simple modification internally that improves the sound too. I read about them on the steel guitar forum and the IGS acoustic guitar forum. If you do a search there, it will bring up those posts on the Johnsons. Even if yours isn't a Johnson, it probably could be upgraded also.
Yes, I have my eye on one, for the not too distant future, they are a very good value.
Let's hear more great music from guys like you, and thank you for it! KonaBob has linked us up to some great clips he's made before too! Keep them coming! |
Koaniani,
Ola, Barry
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 08:55:10 AM
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quote:
My theory regarding steel tunings involves "quadrant" tunings and "irregular" tunings, which I would gladly elaborate on if anyone's interested. (Believe me, you probably aren't that interested! I can drone on for hours!
Drone away, my friend, I'm all ears.
BTW: For the benefit of us stone age folks with steam powered modems, any alternative for hearing your stuff?
cheers,
Mark |
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bluespiderweb
Akahai
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 09:51:14 AM
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Hi KonaBob,
That's good to know about the Johnson roundneck not being sturdy enough for lap playing, with heavier strings, it puts a load on the neck, and some tunings need lighter strings, as you know.
The tricone Johnsons now come in squareneck, suitable for lapstyle slide. The roundnecks are better for bottleneck with a lower action. Your buiscuit bridge with a square Koa neck should be great too. Had you thought about putting in a National cone? It's not an expensive upgrade, and it will already be opened up for the neck replacement. Might be a good time! Let us know when you get it back how you like it and maybe post some clips? Thanks! |
Koaniani,
Ola, Barry
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