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 Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar / Hawaiian Music
 Pu`uanahulu tab?
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skinny1
Aloha

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  5:33:52 PM  Show Profile
I really want to learn this song. Searched the entire net and could not find the tab. I know its on Slack Tracks V3 but I really don't want to pay $30 to learn one song. Can anybody help me out? It's a great song. If I at least knew what tuning it was in I could figure it out. Mahalo!

`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu

USA
826 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2006 :  03:51:42 AM  Show Profile
Maybe someone here on TaroPatch would be willing to make a single copy of that and sell it to you for $30. That way you wouldn't have to put up with all the wonderful songs and work that went into making Slack Tracks. Isn't this the basis for all the Copyright and piracy issues we've been posting for so long, I'm sure Don Narup would appreciate being paid for his labors.

Dave

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skinny1
Aloha

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2006 :  05:01:29 AM  Show Profile
Check your emotions at the door please. I am sorry if your feelings were hurt. Tablature is not infringing on anybodys copyright. People are getting downright paranoid these days with all the protection they feel they need. It's not hurting anyone if I want to use a tab to learn a song. Olga is fighting that issue right now and it appears they will be taken offline as a result. This is all happening because it's impacting others ability to make more money. Good grief.
I think the Slack Tracks is a great idea. I just prefer one song to the others. I am sure Slack Tracks is doing fine without my purchase.
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu

USA
1533 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2006 :  05:06:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit hapakid's Homepage
Dave,
I don't think he's asking for someone to copy Slack Tracks for him, just help him learn the song, which is pretty basic.

Jesse
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Ianui
Lokahi

USA
298 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2006 :  05:45:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Ianui's Homepage
Regarding copyright comment: If you copy a Slack Track tab you are infringing on our copyright

Slack Tracks was created for people to learn some songs, while having fun,and to provide an opportunity to do something most players do not have the opportunity to do, or do often. Thats to play songs with other musicians.

So the comment about $30.00 to learn one song is somewhat frustrating as Slack Tracks is not just about learning to play a song by tab.

We found that most mainland players have limited opportunities to kanikapila, and get so used to playing solo, that when they do get together with someone else its difficult to get the timing, and the ear used to someone playing along side of them. Some players have overcome shyness, as playing with the backing band has given them a confidence level they did not previously have.

As Reid aptly puts it in his Slack Track review. You can play with with musicians that never get tired, don't care about your mistakes, you can see exactly how your own licks will work, and the band will repeat the same measures, or song over and over as long as you want.

So I don't look at Slack Tracks as just another here's a CD and tab copy it, product. There are many subtle yet extremely important factors in playing Slack Key, that Slack Tracks provides for which no physical item is included in the package. But becomes amazingly present in a persons performance.

No, you do not pay $30.00 to just learn to play a song via tab. Nor do we want anyone to buy Slack Tracks for the tabs. Buy it for the experience of what it would be like to play with your friends on your front pourch, or out on the road with your own band.

By my math your paying $7.00 a song with 4 learning tracks per song plus a tab. I understand you may not want the other three songs on that particular CD but thats a personal choice. I don't believe at $7.00 a song the CD is over priced at all.

I'll tell you what I will consider doing and that is cutting the one song with a tab for you for $13.00 (Because its a hassel to do) That would include snail mail postage. In fact we might consider doing that for everyone, and Terry is going to absolutely kill me when he reads this. (Well you are retireing and looking for something to do right?)

Edited by - Ianui on 09/26/2006 10:41:42 AM
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu

USA
826 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2006 :  06:26:00 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Check your emotions at the door please. I am sorry if your feelings were hurt

My feelings are not hurt in any manner
quote:
I don't think he's asking for someone to copy Slack Tracks for him, just help him learn the song, which is pretty basic.

Yes it is. Put on the CD. Figure out the key. Learn it
quote:
The comment about $30.00 to learn one song is somewhat frustrating.

That was my point

Pau
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu

USA
1533 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2006 :  10:33:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit hapakid's Homepage
I feel sorry for anyone who puts up a "please send me tab" posting on an open forum--it means that you can't figure out a simple I-IV-V song and want someone else to do it for you while you wait by your computer. Tab is a crutch that keeps you from learning the fretboard or the experiencing the wonder of learning on your own.
That said, lay off the guy. He just wants to learn the song. Sometimes a song just grabs you and you want a little help getting started. Laying into him with sarcastic comments is a little harsh. He lives in Virginia and probably doesn't have a dozen slacker buddies within an hour's drive like you guys in central CA or the Seattle area.
Jesse


Edited by - hapakid on 09/26/2006 11:12:15 AM
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Retro
Ahonui

USA
2368 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2006 :  11:51:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit Retro's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by skinny1

Tablature is not infringing on anybodys copyright.
Skinny1: there is a very detailed discussion on the Kanikapila forum, called "Tab Websites Under Attack." It's closed now, but reading through it may give you some insight into the emotions this topic stirs up, and it could help you to understand where some folks are coming from, before you toss out words like "paranoia."
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skinny1
Aloha

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2006 :  12:33:52 PM  Show Profile
Thanks Jesse for the support. Looks like I stirred up a hornets nest but I stand by my comments. There was another member on the board who asked about tab to a different song so I thought it was acceptable. Guess not. However, I can figure it out by ear but it would take longer and I am lazy these days : ) I am also very busy so anything that will cut down my time in learning a song will be helpful. I wasn't asking for somebody to make a copy of the tab directly from Slack Tracks. Jesse picked up on that.

By the way, I have only heard two versions of the song on the net. I was planning on getting the tab, buying a CD with that contains the song, and then master it. I only have 3 slack key CD's so I am steadily building my collection. I am a bit of a perfectionist so when I learn a song I want to learn it note for note. Ianui, I think I might just end up ordering Slack Tracks after all. After listening it sounds like they are well done.
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sbar15
Lokahi

USA
151 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2006 :  1:45:03 PM  Show Profile
Slack tracks are great and Don has done a great job with them thanks Don. But the copyright arguments really but a pain in my heart where is the aloha in this.My take is to learn the basics and then play from your own heart you really do not need any tabs just a little aloha.

Steve
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Ianui
Lokahi

USA
298 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2006 :  8:46:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ianui's Homepage
Hey Skinny

I have been real fortunate to have been around the best slack key players in the world and have listened to hours of talk story and great music. One thing I do know that these great musicians are never concerned with, is playing a song exactly the same way they have played it before. They most likely don't even remember exactly how they played it before. What you hear at a concert, is how they feel the song in their heart that night. Slack Key is not about precision or sounding exactly like someone else.

On the mainland we have not had the luxury of growing up around people that played this music or learning from others. So we try and sound exactly like the guys on the CDS because we don't know how else to sound. Have you noticed that those guys don't sound like each other.

Slack Tracks was developed as a guide to get a person to that point. So that they become free to play from their heart and develop their own individual style. Patrick and I put a lot of philosophical thought into these recordings. So to us its a lot more than selling a few songs. Its also something you don't sit down and put in a sales brochure.

BTW Skinny1 I lived a couple years in Manasas. Went to 7th grade there a very long time ago.

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Sarah
`Olu`olu

571 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2006 :  05:08:19 AM  Show Profile
Aloha e Skinny,

First, Slack Tracks are great. You won't regret it, and you'll have a bunch of songs, and it's way cool to play along with an invisible band in your own living room

But, to add to some other comments about learning stuff when you don't have any tab -- and there are a zillion Hawaiian songs for which there is no known or available tab, so I've encountered this situation a lot...

FWIW, my own thoughts (ku'u wahi mana'o wale no):

What I have found to work and to be quite fundamental, is to first learn the melody of the song. After all, the guitar part is just an arrangement thereof, so the melody is the heart of it. I learned that it even has a name in Hawaiian, "piko," or "center." (OK, this might not work with certain instrumentals, but my point still stands.) Personally, living 5000 miles away from the islands, I use recordings to teach me the melody of the song I'm interested in. Even some tabs can't do that, because there's so much good harmony going on.

Listening to more than one arrangement is very educational, too -- it's amazing how people come up with different ways to express the same song, and you can sometimes pick up new licks or ornaments or harmonies. One can often find several recorded arrangements of a song, and the nature of slack key is kinda ultimately to make your own arrangement, with your personal flavor, or to add your personal style to someone else's arrangment. Of course, slack key being a distinct style, one arranges within those parameters (e.g., bass notes, 3rds, 6ths, slides, and more...all smooth and nahenahe). Listening to others and playing mindfully helps one get the feel of the style. There are at least 12 recordings of Pu'uanahulu, so that makes the potential of 12 different tabs right there.

Pu'uanahulu has a well-known melody with lyrics. If you can memorize the melody, if not the lyrics although that helps a bunch, you can start to back up your melody (just hum it if you want) and you're on your way. Or, you can tab out the melody, and fill in around it.

In my opinion, Taropatch is a good tuning to start out learning most pieces, or to at least give it a try, because it is the most common slack key tuning. Also, the Dancing Cat recording label, in their slack key series, is very good about telling in the liner notes what tuning the artist is using.

Our own Cpatch on TP here has spent many an hour compiling a learning resource: a list of songs already in teaching media (book, video, etc.) and the tuning, the artist, and the media title and type -- I had thought there was a link to it from TP but I wasn't able to locate that. I hope he doesn't mind me posting the link here: http://www.patchett.com/kihoalu/tarosongs.htm

Just out of curiosity, where and how did you hear the Pu'uanahulu that hooked you?

aloha,
Sarah
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a

USA
1007 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2006 :  05:46:56 AM  Show Profile
I don't know which albums you own with the song, but Gabby Pahinui Band Vol 1 had a good version without as many other instruments. The singing and melody are fairly straight-forward.
Good luck.
n
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a

USA
1491 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2006 :  09:32:33 AM  Show Profile
Try this for starters:

Play this in taro Patch G --- you can figure out the chord forms and melody notes.

Verse:
G G7 C
Nani wale Pu`uanahulu i ka `iu `iu
D7 G D7
’Äina pali, kaulana pu’u kinikini

Chorus:
G G7 C
Lü `ia mai lü, `ia mai, ko `oukou aloha
D7 G D7
E nä manu, `ö`ö hulu melemele

End: Tag, C, Cm, G

Hope this helps you figure it out.

Go to Huapala.org for more verses and the ha'ina.

E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima.
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu

USA
1533 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2006 :  2:48:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit hapakid's Homepage
Hoooo! Is it getting hot in here?

Actually, I appreciate your take on this, JWN. But we can help acculturate Skinny (or any other new member) to our forum without the sarcasm and lectures about copyright. He mentioned Slack Tracks, but I don't think he was begging someone to rip him a copy, so that's a red herring everyone is jumping on. Let's just bring people up to speed on what we consider respectful conduct here without pulling out our own "attitude." It's what we would want from someone else if you or I were the new kid in town.
Skinny didn't ask the question right (or the right question) and he gets hammered. Now he knows what's up around here. He may also think we're a bunch of knotheads who wouldn't know "aloha" or "pu'unaue" if it bit us in the butt. To be anonymously belligerent to someone because you disagree is what's wrong with public discussions on the internet.
Civility, that's all I'm talking about.
Jesse
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Reid
Ha`aha`a

Andorra
1526 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2006 :  02:25:54 AM  Show Profile
A modest proposal:

As John noted, this subject has been beaten to death over a very long time period, not just recently. Nothing about the issue is going to change anytime soon, either here or in the larger world.

How about we don't talk about this anymore until there is some notable external change? And how about some sort of easily visible sign that will catch a newbie's attention so that they don't blunder into this swamp? Or, maybe, only one reply, and that reply a reference to that long thread along with a reference to the Learning Materials section (newbies often don't look around before they post)?

...Reid
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