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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 08/24/2007 : 10:53:02 AM
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Larry - the environmental impact investigation must have already been done because the boat starts running August 28.
Al - In my opinion, the fare is NOT affordable for anything other than a special once in a while special occasion. (Well, unless money is not object, but to me it is, and I am sure to the kama`aina, it is as well). A walk-on passenger fare could be about $70 plus 30% for the fuel charge -- $91.00 ONE WAY!!!!
The costs appear mighty high to me. There is something like a 30% fuel surcharge in addition to the published fares, which is beyond my comprehension. Normally when one sells a product one incorparates the cost of all the raw materials plus labor plus a reasonable profit for pricing at a firm fixed price. However, this appears to be a fixed cost plus variable fee. I guess it is sort of like a cost of liwing fee or a economic price adjustment based on fuel costs. They said the public utilities or DoT or whoever permit it. There is a discount for continuing on, but I really do not understand how it works since the ferry goes to Kaua`i first thing in the morning, them comes back to Honolulu and then goes to Maui in the afternoon and them comes back to Honolulu. It is the only boat. They expect another one in 2009 which goes to Big Island (Kawaihae).
Here is what the Ferry folks say about the surcharge:
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The fuel surcharge will vary and is calculated monthly based on the price of fuel. A fuel surcharge is normal for regulated carriers such as Hawaii Superferry and the amount of the surcharge will vary depending on passenger and vehicle fares. The current surcharge of 30.8% is for tickets purchased now through August 31, 2007. Should the cost of fuel go down, the fuel surcharge will also go down.
Why is the fuel surcharge separate from the base fare?
Passenger and vehicle fares are regulated by the Public Utilities Commission and not subject to change without prior approval. The fuel surcharge will vary monthly depending on the cost of fuel and is in addition to the passenger and vehicle fares.
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Right now, passenger only fares are between 60-70 dollars each way. Vehicle fare depends on type of vehicle, but is pretty expensive.
Cannot stay in the car if you take a car. You have to secure the vehicle and then remove yourself to the passenger compartment.
Luggage: Can take two carry-ons of a not to exceed size; can check bag of specific NTE size (larger than the carry ons). (web site gives dimensions). |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 11:31:31 AM
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An EIS was not done.
State Government officials argued that barges, a ramp, fencing and utilities provided for the Hawaii Superferry at the Honolulu, Kahului, Nawiliwili and Kawaihae harbors are exempt, and that there are no grounds on which an EIS would be required.
The public has been consistent in requesting an EIS, with a formal request having first been made at the Public Utilities Commission hearing of November, 2004. Litigation began in March 2005. In 2006, the County Councils on Kaua’i, Maui, and the Big Island all passed unanimous resolutions asking for an independent EIS.
The case went to the state Supreme Court yesterday.
If this ferry does operate, anyone care to bet how long before the first mongoose is on Kaua'i?
Larry |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 12:49:00 PM
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| Folks - thanks for sharing the info about the EIS. Like a dope, I believed the web site for the Ferry. Did you guys read the stuff on the Super Ferry website about how environmentally friendly they are? Have you any opinions/comments about what they said about that? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 2:43:23 PM
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Aloha Wanda and our Taropatch ohana,
There are numerous potential adverse effects from this ferry that hve been totally ignored by the proponents, and the state. For the record - I really like the ferry in Washington's San Juan islands.
It's hard to know where to begin, but a good(?) place to start is the potential effects on marine mammals. These large boats will cruise at about 40 mph; way too fast for the boat or a whale to avoid a collision. It's a simple matter of probability.
Larry
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 7:31:37 PM
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Interesting, talking about dis. Personally, i no tink dat da ferry goin last very long. Maybe dey goin stick around as long as Mahalo Air, but not as long as Mid Pac (if any of you guys remembah dem). I tink had one mo airline, wat was ... atlantis air o someting liddat. I foget. Anyways, having grown up knowing dat flying was da only way in between da islands, I no tink I would eva take one boat, jus cuz takes too long. I tink people no mo dat kine time nowadays. As fo da mongoose problem ...
http://starbulletin.com/2004/02/25/news/story7.html
so I tink dat make Lana`i maybe da only island witout dem. I agree wit Larry, dat da boats might hit one whale o someting. If dat happens, den fo shua everybody goin be huhu wit dem no? |
If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 7:36:04 PM
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I was under the impression that the Hydrofoil, the Ferry which ran between Maui and O'ahu in the 70's, was discontinued because there were hazards to the Humpbacks, which were not as plentiful then as they are now. Does anyone have more info about that?
I remember a delightful experience in 1976 with a great group of musical aunties and uncles who went to Honolulu to perform as a group, and they invited me to go with them on the Hydro as opposed to flying. (I had met them the night before at the Maui Palms Motel.) I had the best time. They played and sang and danced hula in the aisles. Also plied me with cocktails! Truly a Hawaiian treat.
Julie |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2007 : 10:47:07 PM
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| I don't know about whale concerns which is valid. But many things occurred to stop the hydro foil. It kept breaking down the docks were inadequate and the state raised the rent Not enough people rode it to make it viable and so on. Mass transit by plane is good. But alternative means need to be explored. Wanda the pricing is ludicrous since the proposers once used the argument that now tutu can visit more often and stuff like that. Entrepreneurs should be more accurate in their reporting at the start. Many people stop using something when they feel lied to. I think that all the concerns here are valid but other than paddling or sailing one's own canoe I still say that alternate transportation between islands should be developed. How much different is it than having all the private boats that sail between the islands now? |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2007 : 12:51:28 AM
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For the price they want to charge, fugeddabout it. I would fly. Of course, there are environmental concerns from flying, as well. No matter what we do, we leave footprints. Sometimes the footprints look like Sasquatch done left 'em.
Tis a conundrum. That's why I like what da joka says -- if can, can; if no can, no can. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
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GUke
Lokahi
188 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2007 : 10:05:35 AM
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"No matter what we do, we leave footprints" Wanda, you are so right. When it comes to the enviroment there's no escape to doing harm whenever society progresses. And although we may not want to admit it, it's mankind that's gotten out of control i.e. TOO MANY OF US. Think about it, the majority of us living in the US enjoy a fantastic life. And now with the emergence of China and India into a higher standard of living there's only going to be more consequences to the enviorment. And who are we to deny anybody from a lifestyle like ours. I'll admit that the all mighty dollar--the bottom line -- often blinds us, and so too the attitude of "let's take care of the problem, and deal with the consequences later." Often it's never an easy choice. I personally am too tired of spending so much money on too many studies that only delay, and then increase the cost of the needed project (which again is needed because there are TOO MANY PEOPLE.
Okay, so here's a real radical thought for the "taropatch" greenies. Because of the advancement in communication, i.e. the internet there is no longer any need to go to any live music venues e.g. performances or music workshops. Think of all the pollution you contribute to if you partake -- the burning of fossil fuel for travel (please no justification for usining HOV), electricity to run lighting, P.A. and instruments, the garbage from these events. (If you still need live music, then it's not offensive if you walk to an "unplugged" daytime venue. This would instill the emergence of local musicians. And too, any money spent would be kept in the area. Incidentally I'm writing this while watching a PBS presentation of Rossinni's Barber of Seville.)
Maybe the answer is create a program for an allotment of pollution for individuals. I'll trade my live music pollution consequences for live sport event.
Again, what I am saying is that the problem is that there are just too many people wanting to enjoy a higher standard of living. The enviorment is prey to this. And to address the population problem is a "no win solution".
Finally, I myself being a sometime bandwagon greenie hope to be attending a Big Island workshop in the winter.
The Ferry issue is one the locals need to decide.
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Genaro
Should I? Itʻs only $, and where Iʻm going itʻll burn or melt. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2007 : 10:54:22 AM
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Here is latest information on the status of the Super Ferry from Associated Press.
Hawaii Superferry Faces Waves in Court
Environmentalists Seek to Ground Hawaii Superferry With Court Order; New Protest Held
By JAYMES SONG
The Associated Press
HONOLULU
A state judge agreed Monday to temporarily block the first passenger-vehicle ferry service between the Hawaiian Islands from using Maui's Kahului Harbor, giving environmental groups a victory.
Protesters sought the temporary restraining order to halt the Hawaii Superferry from using the harbor until an environmental assessment is conducted. The request does not affect ports on Oahu or Kauai.
The environmentalists argued in a lawsuit that the ferry's plan to ply 400 miles of Hawaii waters each day endangers whales, threatens to spread invasive species and will worsen traffic and pollution.
Superferry officials have said the ship's water jet propulsion system means there are no exposed propellers to strike aquatic animals.
The order remains in effect until Sept. 6. On Wednesday, the judge will hear arguments on a request for a preliminary injunction.
Hawaii Superferry Inc. said the company was hopeful it would prevail at the hearing Wednesday and resume operations to Maui on Thursday.
While the order did not include Kauai, the company also met with opposition on the rural island, where hundreds were gathered late Monday for the vessel's arrival.
About 65 protesters entered the water some using surfboards, kayaks and canoes while others just swam to block the harbor. Their effort was supported by about 200 protesters on shore.
Coast Guard vessels, including an 85-foot cutter, worked to clear the way for the ship.
The Superferry started trips on Sunday, two days ahead of schedule, after the state Supreme Court ruled last week that the state should have required an environmental assessment before the ferry launched. State transportation officials, noting that the court didn't explicitly say the ship couldn't run, allowed the service to start.
An attorney representing three environmental groups, Isaac Hall, said state law clearly says that a project cannot be launched and state land cannot be used until an environmental assessment is being prepared.
Before Sunday, the only way to travel among the islands where an estimated 1.3 million people live and tens of thousands of tourists arrive each day was by the local airlines.
The $95 million ship is built to carry more than 800 passengers and 200 cars. After Sept. 5, the fares will go up significantly: Round trips from Honolulu to Maui or Kauai, with taxes and a fuel surcharge, will cost more than $240 for one passenger and a car.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2007 : 10:56:07 AM
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| Frankly, I think their pricing will keep the Ferry from running regardless of any environmental concerns. Who could afford to pay for a product like this? Not any ordinary kine folks. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2007 : 11:49:05 AM
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Genaro, you hit first upon the real problem. Good for you. When I was an undergrad, the mantra was ZPG. What happened to that? The statistics show that the US has a 3rd World birthrate, while the EU is declining. China understands that, too - if with draconian measures. I figure it is all about ego here.
You also made a great suggestion about a personal energy market. Sarah and I get crazy when we see that 50% of our cost is simply to connect to the grid, the same with water and sewer charges. If we *never* drank water or turned on a light or took a whizz, we would still have a severe expense. We do not have cable and hate commercial TV. Our cars get 32 mpg. Why shouldn't we be rewarded for that? Why couldn't we sell NO CABLE and get cheaper water ferinstance?
...Reid
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2007 : 12:51:27 PM
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As one who had to use outhouses during small kid time, I am thankful to pay a water bill to flush my toilet. Having hot water come out of the faucet is way mo bettah than heating water outside over a open fire in a big galvanized tub to take a bath or wash clothes. Frankly, them hillbillies built the toilets over the creeks. Yuck. And Charmin is far superior to the Sears catalog or a leaf. I am happy to have drinking water that is reliable and that I do not have to pull up from a well and find a damn frog in the bucket. I am also happy that there is water should a house catch on fire, instead of living a mile up a holler and if your house catches on fire, oh, well, too bad. I am happy to have electric lights come on...to power the computer, or the blow dryer or the stove with which to cook, or to run Paul's amplifier. I am happy to have cable TV and so I don't have to fiddle with the rabbit ears, or so that I can see the Indians play the Mariners. I am happy to have gasoline to put in the car to drive to Maryland to see the Makaha Sons & Herb & Keoki. I am happy there is AVGAS to fuel the plane to take me to Hawai`i. I am happy that I had two children. (Well, except for when they were teenagers). I am happy my parents and Paul's parents had more than two children, because I couldn't imagine our families any other way. I am happy that people used smelly old polluting coal so that they hillbillies in W.Va. would have some type of a job. I am happy to have a garbage disposal to grind up my garbage and flush it down the sewer instead of having to burn the trash. Although, if we could burn our trash it wouldn't have to go in a land fill.
Bottom line...yerah, too many people, yeah, many things pollute; yeah, many things use up energy, but lucky we got that kind of stuff. The alternatives are not pleasant...imagine Cleveland lake-effect winters and having to use an outhouse. I would get me a 10-pound lard bucket instead.
What about those "carbon" credits or whatever the heck that is where you can "buy" your way into thinking you are being nice to the environment? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2007 : 12:52:21 PM
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| Interesting points made by all. Let's see one solution is to drop out of the human race and just stay home and go every where virtually. Now you know we aint going to do that. Thumbstruck and I was just talking about how music is a means of communication that is best expressed in person. Why play if no one is there to listen. I understand that that we need to take care of the 'aina a me na moana a pela aku no. But we keep making babies and as it was said the rest of the world is coming of age so to speak. And more stress on the world is occurring. We must remain diligent, every time we achieve progress towards green the money guys kick back and then re attack when no one is looking. The Sierra Club just stated that taking grizzly bears off the endangered list is not because bears are on the come back it opens up the bears habitat to logging and oil and gas exploration and exploitation. Everytime the gov't does something to the environmental policy it always favors messing with the land so corporations can fill their pockets. So I am glad that this discussion is taking place even if I'd like to see something other than airlines providing transportation between the islands. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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