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PoiDog
Lokahi

245 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  08:51:24 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe

quote:
Originally posted by Haole_Boy

For what it is worth I am iritated with the name too. The spanish music was played well but you have to also like shreding and I don't.
I thought it was all very shameful to be honest.



All Shameful??? The whole show?

You sure 'bout that?



He thought...Opinion and expression. The American way. Or not?

DAC!

Aloha,
da Poi Dog
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noeau
Ha`aha`a

USA
1105 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  08:57:31 AM  Show Profile
Music evolves. I might not care for the song but the players are all good guys. Musicians sometimes feel a need to change styles. Whatʻs in a name? The music was OK so maybe the players were just doing what ever the producer wanted. Who knows. Traditional Hawaiian music is sort of being moved on the side. It is probably a reaction to an attempt to capture audience interest. Anybody familiar with that trend?
Slack Key Kings was actually a name for some compilation CDs that featured various artists. So the group represented that compilation in the combination that appeared that night. Its not so controversial as maybe calling the Dooby Bros number slack key. As said before not all alternate tuning isHawaiian slack key. But we already know that donʻt we?

No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō.

Edited by - noeau on 06/12/2009 09:14:58 AM
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Peshkwe
Akahai

50 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  09:12:59 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by PoiDog

quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe

quote:
Originally posted by Haole_Boy

For what it is worth I am iritated with the name too. The spanish music was played well but you have to also like shreding and I don't.
I thought it was all very shameful to be honest.



All Shameful??? The whole show?

You sure 'bout that?



He thought...Opinion and expression. The American way. Or not?

DAC!



Yes,...He thought. His expansion on His position is what I was asking from Him.
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PearlCityBoy
Lokahi

USA
432 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  09:15:43 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe

An explanation of what was going on is given by one of the 9 guys is four post above yours.

I personally think Pali get plenty sensitivity to the music of Hawaii as one of the "powers that be" otherwise he'd have never gotten the Pakele Live shows and stream going in the first place.



I don't think the "Am open tuning" mentioned above is a traditional slack key tuning. I couldn't find it in Dancing Cat's excellent slack key tuning essay: http://www.dancingcat.com/skbook3-tuningessay.php#six . When I get a chance, I'll ask my kumus, particularly about the use of minor tunings in the slack key tradition. The actual tuning nothwithstanding, I don't think the way the tuning was played was in slack key style, and I wouldn't classify the song as Hawaiian either.

Regarding your second point, I was referring specifically to the sensitivity and responsibility to the slack key tradition and not the more general "music of Hawaii." When artists/producers self-proclaim themselves (including guilt by association) as "Slack Key Kings" (or "Slack Key ____(fill in the blank)"), and then play a song that's not slack key to a worldwide audience in a prestigious Hawaiian awards show, I think that's doing the slack key tradition a disservice and further confuses an already confused worldwide audience. They could have called themselves "Bluegrass Kings" and would have been equally off the mark.

Aloha,

Doug

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PoiDog
Lokahi

245 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  09:23:41 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe

quote:
Originally posted by PoiDog

quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe

quote:
Originally posted by Haole_Boy

For what it is worth I am iritated with the name too. The spanish music was played well but you have to also like shreding and I don't.
I thought it was all very shameful to be honest.



All Shameful??? The whole show?

You sure 'bout that?



He thought...Opinion and expression. The American way. Or not?

DAC!



Yes,...He thought. His expansion on His position is what I was asking from Him.


Somehow the message got itself onto my screen, either by accident or on purpose...AND you missed the kaona.
DAC!

Aloha,
da Poi Dog
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Peshkwe
Akahai

50 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  09:31:41 AM  Show Profile
So it's an matter of semantics then?

If they had been intro'd as "The guys who played on The Slack Key Kings album" rather than The Slack Key Kings it'd have been cool. That a group with Slack Key anything as a name should never play anything but slack key publicly and never in any style that isn't in the dancing cats tuning book?

Gotcha
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Peshkwe
Akahai

50 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  09:35:29 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by PoiDog

quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe

quote:
Originally posted by PoiDog

quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe

quote:
Originally posted by Haole_Boy

For what it is worth I am iritated with the name too. The spanish music was played well but you have to also like shreding and I don't.
I thought it was all very shameful to be honest.



All Shameful??? The whole show?

You sure 'bout that?



He thought...Opinion and expression. The American way. Or not?

DAC!



Yes,...He thought. His expansion on His position is what I was asking from Him.


Somehow the message got itself onto my screen, either by accident or on purpose...AND you missed the kaona.
DAC!



Maybe it wasn't subtle enough.

Care to play again? That'll be $5.00 please.
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sm80808
Lokahi

347 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  09:55:06 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by PearlCityBoy


I don't think the "Am open tuning" mentioned above is a traditional slack key tuning. . .



There is always traditional Em7 tuning...

I don't think "Standard Tuned Kings" or "Pseudo-Latin Rock Kings" have the same ring as "Slack Key Kings".

"HAwaii's Monsters of Acoustic Shred" could work though... Then again, having the backronym HA.M.A.S might put you on an anti-terror watch list or something. )
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Peshkwe
Akahai

50 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  10:03:28 AM  Show Profile
By the way, here are some more vids of the different acts done by Ryan Ozawa Blogger Extraordinaire:

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PoiDog
Lokahi

245 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  10:24:09 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe
Maybe it wasn't subtle enough.


Maybe.

quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe
Care to play again?

Play what?

quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe
That'll be $5.00 please.

Fo what?

DAC!
LOL!
It's workin' already!


Aloha,
da Poi Dog
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Peshkwe
Akahai

50 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  10:33:32 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by PoiDog

quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe
Maybe it wasn't subtle enough.


quote:
Originally posted by PoiDog

Maybe.


Could be.

quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe
Care to play again?

quote:
Originally posted by PoiDog


Play what?


Whatcha got in mind?

quote:
Originally posted by Peshkwe
That'll be $5.00 please.

quote:
Originally posted by PoiDog


Fo what?


Fo that.

[quote]Originally posted by PoiDog

DAC!
LOL!
It's workin' already!





Really now...so excitable!
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Pali
Akahai

64 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  10:54:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit Pali's Homepage
Some very good points here. And I'll address them as a musician, and an artist that loves playing some of Hawai`i's music.... I'm glad though that not everyone here agrees, or has their own opinions on the show, that performance etc.. that means people were watching and feel compelled enough to voice their opinions.

In regards to the naming scheme. I agree. I'm not a fan of it because it denotes superiority etc... there are some great slack key artists on there, some great players there on the album and that performed that play incredible ki ho`alu (e.g. Donald Kaulia), singer and composer of "Sweet Wahine." Kings? I said it before, I'll say it again.. nope. If anyone deserves that, it'd be the likes of Ledward, Cyril etc.. but they wouldn't even name themselves that anyway. I know Led's camp wasn't a fan of the "Grandmaster" title on his CD. I guess I never thought of the Gypsy Kings as a pretentious name.. but like I said, not a fan of the name, but that's just my opinion.

Aside from creating Pakele to help artists promote their releases, and aside from trying to help out other artists whenever possible... I was one of the proponents and supporters of separating the "Instrumental of the Year" and new "Slack Key Album/Ki Ho`alu Album of the Year" categories. I was so happy when John Keawe won that award. I didn't think it fair that they were lumped together for many years. I'm very happy it was indeed split, so before I'm willing to take the blame on not showcasing "real slack key" I thought I'd make it clear that I've ALWAYS tried to have the best intentions whenever doing anything involving Hawai`i's music community. Now, what would many of you classify Peter Moon's music as. He's definitely an incredible player, (and for me, one of the reasons why I wanted to learn and develop "chops"). Because he has samba music, katchi-katchi, Brazilian-style of music and CDs.. would he not be considered a slack key player? If her performed them live, would it be a travesty to slack key? I attended most of his Andrew's Amphitheater Kanikapila jams... they were so awesome.. I wasn't a fan of the Ho`aikane and Jawaiian stuff afterwards, but there were people that didn't care for his music and that came to see Walter, Ho`aikane, etc etc etc. I'm guessing he went through the same criticism that people have about that segment/portion of the show, and that's cool. When I was 16, my cousins (all older than I) would sneak me into Keyholes, out on Waikamilo Road to watch Sonny Chillingsworth perform. Him and his incredible band did katchi-katchi, samba, traditional Hawaiian as well. Whenever he played katchi-katchi, people would get up and dance, and have a great time. We ALL know Sonny was one of the slack key legends and greats.

We're not going to please everyone, we can't. Lots of folks that are and aren't fans of ki ho`alu music or instrumental music, or shred or no shred seemed to really enjoy the performance due to the musicianship and energy... and some didn't like it... and that's expected.
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Pali
Akahai

64 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  11:08:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit Pali's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by sm80808

quote:
Originally posted by PearlCityBoy


I don't think the "Am open tuning" mentioned above is a traditional slack key tuning. . .



There is always traditional Em7 tuning...

I don't think "Standard Tuned Kings" or "Pseudo-Latin Rock Kings" have the same ring as "Slack Key Kings".

"HAwaii's Monsters of Acoustic Shred" could work though... Then again, having the backronym HA.M.A.S might put you on an anti-terror watch list or something. )



ROTFLOL!!!!... I LOVE that HAMAS... that'll get the gang blackballed for sure.

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Pali
Akahai

64 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  11:22:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit Pali's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by PearlCityBoy

I don't think the "Am open tuning" mentioned above is a traditional slack key tuning. I couldn't find it in Dancing Cat's excellent slack key tuning essay: http://www.dancingcat.com/skbook3-tuningessay.php#six . When I get a chance, I'll ask my kumus, particularly about the use of minor tunings in the slack key tradition. The actual tuning nothwithstanding, I don't think the way the tuning was played was in slack key style, and I wouldn't classify the song as Hawaiian either.




Hmmm.. this indeed is an odd one. My only question is, is Dancing Cat's essay the end all of all slack key tunings? If Cyril, or Led decided to tune to an open CMaj7.. or Cmin7, or Dmin9 for that matter.. and composed a beautiful song out of it... would that not be considered "true slack key"? If John Keawe decided to tune his guitar to CCGDAE (fiddle) or a CGDAEG (lower strings tuned to cello) and created a wonderful mele out of that-would anyone say he's not playing slack key?

I guess, in a broader, more philosophical realm of discussion, we'd need to go back to what is art, what is music? If someone paints a picture of roadkill with crayons and puts it in a museum where 99% of the people hate it, but 1% loves it.. and considers it a masterpiece even, does it mean that the painting in question is not art? I listen to all types of music and come across stuff that I absolutely hate.. whether it be out of tune vocals or out of tune instruments...but some folks love it, and Lord knows they sell a whole lot more CDs then I ever did

I guess, only in regards to the questioning of Am being a real tuning, or just alternate tuning.. whose to say it is or isn't authentic or not. Cyril, Donald, Led etc all play with different tunings and *create* new tunings often.
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Peshkwe
Akahai

50 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  11:35:22 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Pali

quote:
Originally posted by PearlCityBoy

I don't think the "Am open tuning" mentioned above is a traditional slack key tuning. I couldn't find it in Dancing Cat's excellent slack key tuning essay: http://www.dancingcat.com/skbook3-tuningessay.php#six . When I get a chance, I'll ask my kumus, particularly about the use of minor tunings in the slack key tradition. The actual tuning nothwithstanding, I don't think the way the tuning was played was in slack key style, and I wouldn't classify the song as Hawaiian either.




Hmmm.. this indeed is an odd one. My only question is, is Dancing Cat's essay the end all of all slack key tunings? If Cyril, or Led decided to tune to an open CMaj7.. or Cmin7, or Dmin9 for that matter.. and composed a beautiful song out of it... would that not be considered "true slack key"? If John Keawe decided to tune his guitar to CCGDAE (fiddle) or a CGDAEG (lower strings tuned to cello) and created a wonderful mele out of that-would anyone say he's not playing slack key?

I guess, in a broader, more philosophical realm of discussion, we'd need to go back to what is art, what is music? If someone paints a picture of roadkill with crayons and puts it in a museum where 99% of the people hate it, but 1% loves it.. and considers it a masterpiece even, does it mean that the painting in question is not art? I listen to all types of music and come across stuff that I absolutely hate.. whether it be out of tune vocals or out of tune instruments...but some folks love it, and Lord knows they sell a whole lot more CDs then I ever did

I guess, only in regards to the questioning of Am being a real tuning, or just alternate tuning.. whose to say it is or isn't authentic or not. Cyril, Donald, Led etc all play with different tunings and *create* new tunings often.




There is this:

http://www.dancingcat.com/skbook1-history.php

quote:
All of these techniques enhance the expressions of aloha, joy, or longing, sometimes all in the same song.

Like blues guitar, the slack key tradition is very flexible and can have great emotional depth. A guitarist will often play the same song differently each time, sometimes changing tempos, or even tunings. As guitarists learn to play in this very individualistic tradition, they find their own tunings, techniques, arrangements, and repertoire.

One of ki ho'alu's three most influential slack key masters (along with the late "Gabby" Pahinui and the late Sonny Chillingworth), the late Leonard Kwan, explained his playing style, "I use a lot of variations. They make what you're playing sound more interesting. It's like when you're cooking. When you put the spices in, it tastes better than just cooking plain. The principle is the same in music." Variations, he said, are even more important for an instrumentalist like him. When someone sings, the voice is the center of attention, "but when you play a slack key instrumental, to make it sound full, you have to play the bass, the melody and harmonies, do the picking and keep the rhythm. That's the hard part."

In addition to these variations, ki ho'alu music reflects what emotions the musician has at the moment. Guitarist George Kuo says, "It's a very personal kind of art, and it displays a lot of the person's feelings. You can make it fit to the mood you're in. If you're feeling sad, you can make the notes really linger and cry. And if you're feeling creative, you can really take off. You can speed up the song and make it bouncy, or you can take a bouncy song and make it hypnotic and dreamy."

For Led Kaapana, who seems to have an inexhaustible ability to improvise, the best improvisation is based on two things: the song itself and the mood of the moment, which changes each time you play the song. As Led explains, "Everything you play, every time you play, there's a mood, an energy. If you plug into it, the music just flows. Even in a simple song, there are so many different ways to play the melody, the rhythm, the harmony. It never stops if you stay open to it."


Sounds like a living growing thing to me.


------------

"If someone paints a picture of roadkill with crayons and puts it in a museum where 99% of the people hate it, but 1% loves it.. and considers it a masterpiece even, does it mean that the painting in question is not art?"

Ooo....next CD cover?

me/ runz like hell
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