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 Eh, any you guys remembah da old kine 'patch?
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thumbstruck
Ha`aha`a

USA
1939 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2017 :  3:07:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eh, had one time when had plenny guys talk story about any kine, restaurants, drive ins, getting lickin's smah-kid time, recipes, advices from tutu kane, firs'time hea slack key, li'dat. Cannot tell me dat da phones an' da devices wen take ovah! Shoots! If li'dat, wase time us guys play guitar!

Eynowd
Akahai

Australia
78 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2017 :  11:30:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think I joined after the Patch had already gone quiet. I never really know what to say here, without feeling like I'm intruding.

Still learning slack key. Been working on Liloa's Mele, from tab, recently, and working out "My Yellow Ginger Lei" as well. Trying to figure out how to play variations.

Still haven't found anyone else in town who wants to play Hawaiian music though. I've played it in front of people a few times, and they make appreciative noises, but no one else wants to play. It gets a bit lonely at times.

Geoff - g'day from Canberra, Australia.
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Earl
Lokahi

USA
253 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2017 :  05:39:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit Earl's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I feel your pain Geoff -- we have a similar loneliness here in Idaho, USA. Being inland and pretty far from Hawaii, there isn't much exposure to island music or slack-key here -- except for what I do running a ukulele club and playing slack-key occasionally around town. Even at the ukulele club, the group doesn't have much interest or appreciation for genuine Hawaiian music, only the Hapa Haole stuff at best.

We had a great Friday evening kani kapila going for a few months at a new genuine Hawaiian restaurant in the next town over. The uncles (and I) played and the aunties danced hula and sang along, then we all had ono grinds afterward. But they closed their doors suddenly on Labor Day weekend. Running a restaurant is TOUGH, especially for first timers fighting the learning curve! We are trying to keep the kani going by rotating through people's homes once or twice a month with music and pot luck. Fingers crossed.....

And don't ever feel like you are intruding. It's just good to see any activity around the Patch again.
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thumbstruck
Ha`aha`a

USA
1939 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2017 :  12:23:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Geoff, Earl, NEVER GIVE UP! You never know who'll come down the road. YouTube, the 'patch, even FB, can be tools to build and strengthen the network.
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Eynowd
Akahai

Australia
78 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2017 :  3:22:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck

Geoff, Earl, NEVER GIVE UP! You never know who'll come down the road. YouTube, the 'patch, even FB, can be tools to build and strengthen the network.




Oh, I have no plans on giving up! I've been learning ki ho'alu for three years now, and have too much time and energy invested in it. :)

I really enjoy playing it and definitely want to learn more and get better at it. I want to be able to play well enough to honour those who's music it is.

I know I have to get the music out more. I'm currently thinking that I'll add a few more tunes to my repertoire, then try playing some of them at one of the open mic style things in town and see what happens. But because I don't want to do a half-arsed job of it, I'm worried I'm not good enough to be slack key's ambassador just yet.

There's just no Hawaiian stuff in my city. I even asked a friend who at the time was working at the US Embassy here in town, and she said they'd tried to find some Hawaiian culture stuff to put on at the city's multicultural day a couple of years back, and hadn't even found anything at all. I think they ended up getting some hula dancers down from Sydney (three hours north of here).

There's only one other person I know in the COUNTRY who plays slack key. Sam Lemann is a professional jazz guitarist in Melbourne (about 6-8 hours drive south of here), and he goes to Hawaii every year to learn some more stuff (there's videos of him on YouTube playing with Kimo Hussey). He's really good, but too far away to play with regularly.

I'm sure there must be more people in Oz who play ki ho'alu, but they're not easy to find, and Australia is a big place (about the same size physically as the mainland USA, for comparison).

Geoff - g'day from Canberra, Australia.
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Eynowd
Akahai

Australia
78 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2017 :  3:46:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Earl

I feel your pain Geoff -- we have a similar loneliness here in Idaho, USA. Being inland and pretty far from Hawaii, there isn't much exposure to island music or slack-key here -- except for what I do running a ukulele club and playing slack-key occasionally around town. Even at the ukulele club, the group doesn't have much interest or appreciation for genuine Hawaiian music, only the Hapa Haole stuff at best.


Yeah, I hear you. I take part in a couple of uke groups, but there's no appreciation for Hawaiian music there (very few have even heard the real stuff). I'd dearly love to bring some Hawaiian songs along to share, but I really don't think that they'd go down well. People here are just stuck on strumming songs, usually popular stuff from the past forty years.

In one small group I'm in, I've started playing some of the tunes in fingerstyle (just regular travis style picking patterns, not melody lines (yet)). Suddenly people are looking at me like I'm some kind of expert. It's really been weirding me out, to be honest. I'm still just learning and trying out new things. I never set out to be the best player in the group, and yet that's what people are somehow seeing me as.


quote:
Originally posted by Earl
We had a great Friday evening kani kapila going for a few months at a new genuine Hawaiian restaurant in the next town over. The uncles (and I) played and the aunties danced hula and sang along, then we all had ono grinds afterward. But they closed their doors suddenly on Labor Day weekend. Running a restaurant is TOUGH, especially for first timers fighting the learning curve! We are trying to keep the kani going by rotating through people's homes once or twice a month with music and pot luck. Fingers crossed.....


I was bummed when I saw your post a while back about the restaurant closing down on you. I really do hope that you can keep the momentum going, and find a way to expand some more, and get more people hooked!

quote:
Originally posted by Earl
And don't ever feel like you are intruding. It's just good to see any activity around the Patch again.



It's often that I have nothing new to add. I slog along learning new tunes (or playing the ones I already know to make sure I don't forget them, or to much around with different phrasing, to see what does and doesn't work), and slowing finding my skill is improving.

I ordered Dr Cookie's Hawaiian song books a few months ago, after Kory recommended them to me. They're really neat, with the melody line tabbed out for nearly every song. I took the melody line for "My Yellow Ginger Lei", which was in the key of F, and converted it by hand to the key of C, and started playing it on my uke. It was about that point that I recognised that the finger positions were almost slack key, so I picked up my guitalele and played the melody there.

Then the light came on. Suddenly I began to understand slack key more. I only started playing music at ALL in March of 2014 and had no musical knowledge at all before that. So, I could play from tab, but I didn't understand what it was I was doing. But after manually converting the melody across keys and then playing that, it made a whole lot more sense (both in slack key and Hawaiian style uke playing).

I need to work on my ear training more, so that I can start recognising which note is which, just by listening to it. I can't do that yet, and struggle to pick out the intervals between notes as well (I guess this is all related to only playing music for three and a half years, so I need to cut myself some more slack...).

I keep telling myself this is all a journey and all I really need to do is keep putting one foot in front of the other. It'll all happen in time.

Geoff - g'day from Canberra, Australia.
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Earl
Lokahi

USA
253 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2017 :  5:57:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit Earl's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck

Geoff, Earl, NEVER GIVE UP! You never know who'll come down the road. YouTube, the 'patch, even FB, can be tools to build and strengthen the network.


I won't give up either. Things change their form at times, but the music lives on -- as long as we keep playing.
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thumbstruck
Ha`aha`a

USA
1939 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  04:04:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I tell my student(s), "You'll never play as good as you hear, because your ear will always grow ahead of your ability to play." Look forward to "hitting the wall", it means that you're getting ready to make the next jump. You know more today than you did a year ago. No stress, jus' press.
Eh, Ed, good you stay lurking............
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Eynowd
Akahai

Australia
78 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2017 :  2:04:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck

I tell my student(s), "You'll never play as good as you hear, because your ear will always grow ahead of your ability to play." Look forward to "hitting the wall", it means that you're getting ready to make the next jump. You know more today than you did a year ago. No stress, jus' press.



For me, getting to the point where I can play a tune reasonably fluently from memory (without needing the tab in front of me) is always more stressful than being in the middle of learning a tune.

Why? Because it's always a time of me flailing about wondering what the heck I should learn next! It was easier when I was learning all the Taropatch tunes in Ozzie's book, because once I'd learned one, I'd just go onto the next one. But once I'd gotten through all of those, I go through periods where I feel lost for a while, until I eventually settle on something new to concentrate on for a while.

Geoff - g'day from Canberra, Australia.
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neeej
`Olu`olu

USA
601 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2017 :  07:19:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't just stick to Ozzie's taro patch pieces...move on to the others. There are some real pretty things there, and it'll stretch your learning curve nicely <G>

--Jean S
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Eynowd
Akahai

Australia
78 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2017 :  1:21:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by neeej

Don't just stick to Ozzie's taro patch pieces...move on to the others. There are some real pretty things there, and it'll stretch your learning curve nicely <G>



Oh, I already have. I've also learned:
  • Nanea Kou Maka i ka Le`ale`a from Mark Nelson's Old Time Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar
  • Hapuna Sunset from the soundtrack to The Descendants (Charles Michael Brotman?)
  • Liloa's Mele, from Ozzie's website
  • A bunch of little things that I've learned from the web, but aren't long enough to be performance pieces


I think I need to get cracking on learning some more stuff. I need a bigger repertoire, if I'm ever going to perform a decent length set to spread the aloha to others.


Geoff - g'day from Canberra, Australia.
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thumbstruck
Ha`aha`a

USA
1939 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2017 :  4:29:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
YouTube, just saying....... As Duke says, "Learning slack key get 2 steps, numbah 1, da book, numbah 2, no moa book." Build your ear more than your eyes. After all, you're producing sound. No stress, jus' press. It will never be the same twice, it's always different, just like breathing.
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Eynowd
Akahai

Australia
78 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2017 :  7:01:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck

YouTube, just saying....... As Duke says, "Learning slack key get 2 steps, numbah 1, da book, numbah 2, no moa book." Build your ear more than your eyes. After all, you're producing sound. No stress, jus' press. It will never be the same twice, it's always different, just like breathing.



But if you're watching YouTube, aren't you using your eyes more than your ears?

Geoff - g'day from Canberra, Australia.
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu

USA
964 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2017 :  10:47:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice thread peeps


In kiho'alu (as in most facets of life) you need to take advantage of every available learning resource. Books, YouTube, kanikapila, other slackers or if you're lucky, one on one instruction. Use your senses too. Listen, watch & feel. The old Hawaiian saying for learning kiho'alu goes:


"Nana ka maka" (Watch with the eyes)
"Ho'olohe ka pepeiao" (Listen with the ears)


I encourage all my haumana (student) to listen to & watch (YouTube especially) as many other players as possible. Study Gabby, Sonny Chillingworth, Leonard Kwan, Atta Isaacs, Raymond Kane, Ledward Ka'apana, Uncle Fred Punahoa, Peter Moon, Ozzie, Cyril, Keola etc. Although I have been influenced by all of these people (and more) what I have learned & kept are stuff that appeals to me. It's just my preferences. I tell my haumana that they don't want to become a carbon copy of me. I'd be short changing them if I insisted on that. I want them to be well-rounded slack key players exposed to everybody so that they have all the tools & information to develop their own unique sound. This might even help them towards composing original pieces too in the long run.

I always use the example of the album "The Rabbit Island Music Festival" These recordings included Gabby & Cyril Pahinui, Sonny Chillingworth & Atta Isaacs. At any given time signature in the songs each notable individual player could be doing some kind of different & cool riff. Because of preferences each slacker that listens to these songs may come out of it with a different take. For instance, at the 2:13 time signature in "Makee Ailana" I might really like what Atta Isaacs is playing, Kory might prefer what Gabby is doing. Geoff may like what Cyril is doing. Earl my prefer Sonny's riffs & Jean might like what Gabby & Atta are doing & make a hybrid riff from it. Not wrong or right, just preferences. But the exposure to many choices helps us develop our own signature sound.

My youngest student Jonah Domingo has played in the last 4 Oahu slack key festivals & will no doubt be a permanent fixture on the circuit. When I go to the festivals I always hustle the other slack key guitarists to sit with Jonah for awhile. Ledward Ka'apana, Paul Togioka, Donald Batino Kaulia, David Kaio, Moon Kahele, Stephen Inglis, Bobby Moderow etc. Even lesser known but very talented slackers like Noah Campbell, Jonathan Castillo & Timi Abrigo. They all don't mind sharing. This I hope will expose Jonah to many influences & make him a well rounded player.

First song I played for Ozzie was my rendition of "Maori Brown Eyes" He was stoked & raving about the uniqueness of my version. I said "A little bit of it is original from noodling around but I 'borrowed' parts from Leonard Kwan, Peter Moon & Chino Montero. So it's just a compliation of other people's stuff" He said "But the way you put the bits & pieces together makes it your own interpretation of the song which is unique. It's like you take random pieces of clay & slap them together to make a work of art. That's what it means to make a song your own"

Point I'm trying to make is: Take advantage of every learning resource & expose yourself to as many players as possible. This is how you'll become a well-rounded player & develop your own sound.

Geoff, i don't remember which slack key tabs I shared with you. Send me a list of what you got & I'll see if I have anything to add to your stash.

Hoof Hearted?...Was it you Stu Pedaso?
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Eynowd
Akahai

Australia
78 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2017 :  3:33:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mahalo Duke. Your comments have actually started a chain of thoughts crystallising in my head.

I think my lack of musical experience in general is confusing me here, so forgive me if I come across a bit dense. (This is what I get for being isolated and self-taught )

When I've been learning a piece, I typically tend to find an audio version and listen to it on repeat for (quite) a while to let the rhythm sink in. I often use the Amazing Slow Downer app on my phone to isolate and slow down the phrase I'm working on, if I'm having trouble making out the individual notes because they're going past too quickly.

But your thoughts here now have me thinking that looking for cool little snippets in other songs and learning those will help as well? And that figuring out which little bits to learn is simply a matter of finding something that sounds cool and just learning that bit, and storing it away in the back of my mind until I find an appropriate place to drop it into whatever piece I'm playing? (Basically, the same way I can change a vamp in a piece?)

One thing I have been doing is taking a piece I know well, and trying to find different ways to play individual bars within the tune. Ozzie's tune Molehu is a favourite of mine to do this. I've found a couple of little bits that work, but if I do too much, I lose the melody line and it doesn't sound like Molehu any more.

Is this more or less the right approach?

Geoff - g'day from Canberra, Australia.
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thumbstruck
Ha`aha`a

USA
1939 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2017 :  8:20:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Geoff, you're on the right track. Music is finding and recognizing patterns and working within them. Different styles use different patterns and handle them differently. Led told me that as long as you're playing (especially by yourself), do not stress. I tell my haumana that when they practice, they will hit wrong notes, good - they need to know where those notes are for later. Have fun, enjoy the vibes.
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