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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
 Posted - 04/06/2008 : 03:39:43 AM
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I have a single cone resonator and a nut extension but not a slide bar yet. I have some experience using a round bullet on electric pedal steel.
The ergo-slides (flanged) look interesting but I was wondering if the design makes them harder to set for angled bar position.
I searched briefly and it seems that the Dunlop JB or the Broz is popular. Is 5-6 oz the popular weight for acoustic Hawaiian slide?
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 06:53:57 AM
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Ever since Ken Emerson lost control of his round bar, and dropped the sharp end on my weissenborn-again, I have been using a Shubb SP2 ( http://www.shubb.com/sp/index.html ).
Traditional Hawaiian Bullet people alway raise a fuss, but they can't argue with the fact that it sounds great, is easy to hold, and the curved tip gives it most of the advantages of the bullet.
I have one of Bob's Brozophonics, which is a really nice bullet, too, and I use it from time to time, but the Shubb is still my bar of choice in the heat of battle.
Aloha,
-Konabob |
Konabob's Walkingbass - http://www.konawalkingbass.com
Taropatch Steel - http://www.konaweb.com/konabob/
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Konabob2+Walkingbass |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 05:17:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Konabob
Ever since Ken Emerson lost control of his round bar, and dropped the sharp end on my weissenborn-again, I have been using a Shubb SP2 ( http://www.shubb.com/sp/index.html ).
Traditional Hawaiian Bullet people alway raise a fuss, but they can't argue with the fact that it sounds great, is easy to hold, and the curved tip gives it most of the advantages of the bullet.
I have one of Bob's Brozophonics, which is a really nice bullet, too, and I use it from time to time, but the Shubb is still my bar of choice in the heat of battle.
Aloha,
-Konabob
For years, as a pedal steeler, I used a big, heavy bullet bar. At my first lesson from Alan Akaka, he suggested that, for lap steel, a smaller diameter bullet (like the Dunlop Jerry Byrd model) would work better, at it did. I recommend it, as it is easy to manipulate. I am REALLY fond of an old steel which came with my 1951 Fender Champion 6 which I've had forever. It has the same flat end diameter as the Byrd model, but it is slightly tapered. The best thing about it is that it's coated with some hard ceramic-like surface (navy blue). It give the steel a softer sound, which I love. Antone know anything about these steels? Oh - my feeling about the Stevens steel and its derivatives is that it's fine for bluegrass, where a lot of bar lifting goes on to do the melodic runs, but rules of the game of electric steel guitar are to only rarely lift the bar because of the "flow" you want. Now, for the old, pre-WWII sound, there is a lot of bar hopping (no pun intended), so having a good grip is be preferred to damaging a rare instrument (my resonator guitars do have some steel dings on them). |
keaka |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 06:48:18 AM
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Jack, the good grip feature of the SP2 doesn't preclude keeping the bar on the strings for flow. And it is especially good when you want to use only the nose for a few strings (tilting the back of the bar up). It can be gripped nearly the same as a bullet, with trailing damping fingers and one finger on top. You just have 2 fingers in the slot to keep a rock steady control.
It is fine to do what you like to do, but there is a lot of traditional inertia in nearly every guitar discipline.
...Reid |
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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 10:24:19 PM
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the Jerry Byrd type of tone bar is probably best for Hawaiian Style, but there are many choices of other types:-
Slants, especially "Split Slants" and 'Back Slants" are not really possible with a Resonator style bar IMHO..
Don't be a wimp and choose the "Easy way out" use a "Man's" bar  !! The one most of the past "hero's" used ...ROUND NOSE BULLET
As you can see from Richard Shatz's collection, they are by far in the majority of styles and use. |
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Edited by - Basil Henriques on 04/13/2008 10:26:24 PM |
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justplainbill
Akahai
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 04:03:07 AM
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I'm with you on the tone bar use Bas. Reverse slants with a grooved bar would be "interesting" |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 06:41:28 AM
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| Reid. The round nose bullet is the traditional bar. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 07:19:11 AM
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Yes Al, I know, and I have one and use it about half the time. It takes some getting used to. But, with the thumb in the hole at the back it *is* easier to swing around. It is certainly true that reverse slants are hard with the SP2 if you don't change your hand position/hold on the bar; but I do - I raise the hand and grab the grooves with my fingertips.
I know, I know, lousy technique, but my technique with the Dunlop/Byrd bullet is bad on slants, too. I choose what I do, or arrange, either in advance, or on the fly, to avoid slants totally. I did get good enough so that Andy told me last summer during a kanikapila: "You have come a long way with that, Reid." I took that as a compliment. However, I know I will never get really good at it, so I took up bonsai very seriously - at least tiny trees get pretty under my hands (one of my Chinese corkbark elms is *gorgeous*).
Sorry to change the subject, sorta.
...Reid
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justplainbill
Akahai
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 5:43:42 PM
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I believe that like anything else in playing steel, you just have to practice using the bullet bar, if you really want to use it.
A Hawaiian friend sent me a BJS bar, 3/4X 2 7/8, and it's soooo slippery that I cannot hold onto it, so I stick with the JB style Dunlop. That bar would be really bad for a beginner. The RED Raja and Black Pheonix bars are much easier to hold onto, but wear out and chip if dropped. |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 5:49:39 PM
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Ah Reid,
I can just imagine those little trees bending under your will. Now tell me how to accomplish that with my stubborn Rickenbachers...
I know, I know, practice, practice, practice.
Julie |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 8:52:22 PM
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| The steel to me is the hardest instrument to play well. Jerry used to tell me when you make 'em cry then you're doing it right. Right now my dog cries or howls when I play. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2008 : 02:53:52 AM
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Julie, I belong to the bonsai "school" that chooses fine material to start with and then discerns what the tree wants to be - like a Platonic ideal (although there is an Asian philosophical equivalent)- and liberates it. The equivalent in steel playing, for me, is choosing a fine song that speaks to me and then discerning the essence of the song. I limit myself to choosing songs that say something to me, just as I choose the prebonsai; I don't try to play every style of steel music and I am very selective. Then I'll try hard to liberate the music I think I see/hear. In a kanikapila, I'll sit out some pieces where I can't understand how the steel, in my hands, can contribute. I stick to certain slack key pieces and avoid hapa haole and other genres that are foreign to me. For some strange reason, I can fill in almost any key - I just do my shtick on a different section of the fretboard. I almost never, ever solo, but try to augment what others are doing. Anyway, I do what I do, and you might try to find a larger process structure in which you can be happy. I think that, since you sing such a large repertoire, and know so much, that you could transfer what you do with your voice to the steel. I have said before that I think of the steel as a voice.
...Reid |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
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justplainbill
Akahai
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2008 : 6:27:11 PM
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That was very well said Reid, and I believe your insight into playing would make you a very good soloist if you chose to be. I have a very close friend who has backed a lot of Hawaiian singers, with very few instances where he had a chance to play part of the song or verse. Being a steel player, I couldn't accept the role of filling in behind numerous singers without being able to express my own feeling of the tune. Just playing backup would make me feel like the guy bringing snacks into the studio, who is part of the situation, but not much.
I talked to a pedal steel player once who said he really couldn't do any solo playing, just back-up. That to me is really sad, and I felt he didn't know just what he was missing, like the great feeling of playing enough to express himself.
I realize that the producers of recordings run the show. They wouldn't want me in their studio!! |
Edited by - justplainbill on 04/18/2008 6:29:19 PM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 03:56:59 AM
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Thanks Bill. Actually, I don't really think of those *good* steel players playing with slack key guitarists "backing them up". I have long been puzzled, and frustrated, that there has rarely (maybe never) been true slack key duets. I mean duets in the way that you find them in string quartets or opera (opera even has septets and octets) where each instrument is playing a separate melody that would be, by itself, a solo. But, the result is a marvelous harmonization.
When my hands let me play slack key guitar, Sarah and I tried to do that, with mixed results. And, I whined about it so much that Andy wrote a harmonic piece that was meant to be played with Ozzie's Molehu. I thought he did well, and we played it, but Oz didn't like it and Andy had to withdraw it (I still have the tab, though).
Keola and Mark had a couple of compositions that were kind of duets, but didn't meet my conditions. They were fine, as far as they went, but it was the common thing of one guitar backing up while the other soloed and then the other guitar took the lead. The guitars played together for part of them, but they were just not what I had in mind.
All of this writing is in aid of saying that I think that a steel almost automatically can do this kind of harmonization - especially in C6 and its relatives. The steel is relieved of the responsibility of rhythm and bass and can concentrate on melodic lines that interweave with the original melody that the acoustic guitar is playing. This also means that, with this goal, I do not think that I can play the steel (except for practice) in isolation.
...Reid |
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justplainbill
Akahai
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 9:56:48 PM
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I understand completely Reid. I guess we all have something in mind that we would like to accomplish.
I'm so old now, that I forgot what my goal was I just pick away and try to make nice sounds. |
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